winsor
New member
Thanks. I'll started on that right away. What's your take on superauto espresso machines?
Drive Thru building- Help!!!!
- Thread starter tboz
- Start date
cafemakers
Member
Superautomatics can be very well suited to drive thru businesses, but there are some factors specific to your business that you should consider before making a decision.
Although easy to operate and serving a consistent product, I find that you trade the cost of training and retaining better skilled labor with the cost of equipment and maintenence.
If in a coffee-focused business you intend to hire less skilled labor directly contributing to higher turnover, this is a definite plus in the superautomatic category. In this situation practically anybody can serve a decent drink and you can reduce the time in training with each batch of new recruits. Don't forget, you still have to hire good employees: the machines will serve coffee, but they will not drive your people to work on time.
However, if it is in your busines strategy to retain "higher grade" employees or offer compensation and other incentives that will reduce turnover, you can likely avoid unnecessary equipment and maintenence costs with a traditional solution.
Here's a few of the other big points to consider:
There are probably a few other things that I have forgotten to mention here, but are mentioned in this article I wrote for our company newsletter a few months ago.
These issues are not intended to convey a recommendation of either solution in your situation, just point out some of the things that people commonly overlook when jumping to a superautomatic. Hope it helps!
Andrew
Although easy to operate and serving a consistent product, I find that you trade the cost of training and retaining better skilled labor with the cost of equipment and maintenence.
If in a coffee-focused business you intend to hire less skilled labor directly contributing to higher turnover, this is a definite plus in the superautomatic category. In this situation practically anybody can serve a decent drink and you can reduce the time in training with each batch of new recruits. Don't forget, you still have to hire good employees: the machines will serve coffee, but they will not drive your people to work on time.
However, if it is in your busines strategy to retain "higher grade" employees or offer compensation and other incentives that will reduce turnover, you can likely avoid unnecessary equipment and maintenence costs with a traditional solution.
Here's a few of the other big points to consider:
- Reliability: although pretty reliable these days, there are still far more moving parts in a superautomatic than a traditional machine. More moving parts means more breaking parts
- Critical Failure: A minor problem is far more likely to disable a superautomatic than a traditional machine. You can work around problems like a flowmeter failure on a traditional machine, but that same problem on a superauto will completely incapacitate the system. A minimum of 2 independent superautos are recommended for redundency in a coffee-critical business
- Service Availability: having mentioned that you intend to open several locations, you should be aware of the qualifications of service suppliers in each market. It's getting better, but you will still spend more time finding an espresso tech that can troubleshoot some of the more complicated internal mechanisms.
- Speed: (also see cost / redundancy) The superauto goes though a complete mechanical shot cycle (grind, chute/dose, tamp, extract, and rinse) for each drink. Efficiences are gained by a skilled traditional system operator that significantly improve serving time (grinder, dose portafilter 1, tamp, extract, dose portafilter 2, tamp, extract, etc.). And, of course, you want to avoid a superauto that also dispenses the milk in your environment. We reserve those for customer service lounges, employee commissarys and other self-service locations. Adds a great deal of cost and mess, and slows down the process even more.
There are probably a few other things that I have forgotten to mention here, but are mentioned in this article I wrote for our company newsletter a few months ago.
These issues are not intended to convey a recommendation of either solution in your situation, just point out some of the things that people commonly overlook when jumping to a superautomatic. Hope it helps!
Andrew
Coffee Guy
New member
Let me add a couple more observations. Operator Error. If your employees are not properly trainned to recognize the small issues that come up with these machines such as not keeping the pistons clean or making sure the milk stems are clear, that will add to the frustration of the operator. Additionally, I feel that employees should also learn how to program these machines in addition to adjusting the grind. I know that most employers don't want to teach employees how to do these things simply because of the cost of these machines. There are a few different manufacturers of these superauto machines and some have different service issues, but basically they operate the same. I'm not a machine technician, however, I have sold a couple of these machines (one of them to a drive thru) because customer wanted them, only to find due to employee/operator error, that they gave up on them and went to the traditional. One customer I had to pay the expense to have a tech come from out of state to tell them the same thing I told the customer in the first place. Although the machine has cleaning functions programmed into the unit, the operator still has to clean it. Sometimes employees get lazy and don't want to clean as instructed, therefore giving these machines a bad wrap. I would advise you to get a list of references from customers that have these machines on-site, visit them, and actually see them in action.
cafemakers
Member
CG - I could not agree more about the cleaning.
The whole superautomatic situation reminds me of when I was a kid working retail... as soon as electronic anti-theft alarms and surveillance equipment was installed, there was a spike in loss due to theft. When people assume that the technology is handling everything, they no longer notice obvious trouble signs.
Or like teaching students to perform basic math calculations with calculators - they loose the fundamental ability to anticipate results even within a few orders of magnitude.
The whole superautomatic situation reminds me of when I was a kid working retail... as soon as electronic anti-theft alarms and surveillance equipment was installed, there was a spike in loss due to theft. When people assume that the technology is handling everything, they no longer notice obvious trouble signs.
Or like teaching students to perform basic math calculations with calculators - they loose the fundamental ability to anticipate results even within a few orders of magnitude.
BaristaTrainer
New member
CM and CG have some good points ...
here are a couple more things to consider when choosing your machine. A lot of this is from a discussion I had with a Sr. Consultant in the Industry and from my experience using these machines.
I do think that there are applications where super-automatic machine would work well in i.e., car dealerships, schools, c-stores, salons, some restaurants, etc. but I feel that if coffee and espresso is your primary business you'd be much better off going with a traditional machine, and investing the difference into training.
A super automatic espresso machine is not as fast as a skilled barista
on a conventional machine. While a super automatic may be able to produce one drink faster than a barista on a conventional machine, there is no contest when preparing multiple drinks. This slow down in preparation time could/would seriously effect your success in building a clientele base,
especially at the drive thru window.
A conventional machine provides an element of "theater" within your
coffee bar or even your drive-thru. People like to watch the sights an hear the sounds associated with drink preparation. They want to know that they are buying there espresso drinks from a skilled professional.
Most important, many super automatics will only produce a mediocre
quality beverage. Because of the mechanical complexity of the machine
(which I might add involves constant maintenance & repairs), the engineering will often not allow for a grind consistency fine enough to produce a quality shot of espresso. If the coffee was ground fine enough to produce a quality shot, significant residues of coffee grounds would be left in the extraction chamber after the expended puck of used coffee was disposed of, thus causing a fouling of the mechanism, or requiring some type of rinsing cycle between shots. It is for this reason that super automatic machine almost always extract too fast, and often produce watery, more sour shots of espresso.
I would want consumers to be able to differentiate the quality of your coffee as compared to the big chains. Using a super automatic will only drag down your coffee quality down to their level. I believe the best way to compete against them is to have better tasting drinks, at comparable price, served by friendly people.
Also remember when buying your espresso equipment to always opt for a warranty and know who will be servicing your machine before buying it ... if your machine is down for 2 days and you lose 2 days of business, the initial cost of the equipment can be irrelative.
BT
here are a couple more things to consider when choosing your machine. A lot of this is from a discussion I had with a Sr. Consultant in the Industry and from my experience using these machines.
I do think that there are applications where super-automatic machine would work well in i.e., car dealerships, schools, c-stores, salons, some restaurants, etc. but I feel that if coffee and espresso is your primary business you'd be much better off going with a traditional machine, and investing the difference into training.
A super automatic espresso machine is not as fast as a skilled barista
on a conventional machine. While a super automatic may be able to produce one drink faster than a barista on a conventional machine, there is no contest when preparing multiple drinks. This slow down in preparation time could/would seriously effect your success in building a clientele base,
especially at the drive thru window.
A conventional machine provides an element of "theater" within your
coffee bar or even your drive-thru. People like to watch the sights an hear the sounds associated with drink preparation. They want to know that they are buying there espresso drinks from a skilled professional.
Most important, many super automatics will only produce a mediocre
quality beverage. Because of the mechanical complexity of the machine
(which I might add involves constant maintenance & repairs), the engineering will often not allow for a grind consistency fine enough to produce a quality shot of espresso. If the coffee was ground fine enough to produce a quality shot, significant residues of coffee grounds would be left in the extraction chamber after the expended puck of used coffee was disposed of, thus causing a fouling of the mechanism, or requiring some type of rinsing cycle between shots. It is for this reason that super automatic machine almost always extract too fast, and often produce watery, more sour shots of espresso.
I would want consumers to be able to differentiate the quality of your coffee as compared to the big chains. Using a super automatic will only drag down your coffee quality down to their level. I believe the best way to compete against them is to have better tasting drinks, at comparable price, served by friendly people.
Also remember when buying your espresso equipment to always opt for a warranty and know who will be servicing your machine before buying it ... if your machine is down for 2 days and you lose 2 days of business, the initial cost of the equipment can be irrelative.
BT
alexbailey
New member
Drive Thru Builder
We build drive thrus in Columbia, SC. We have dedicated staff in the areas of site location, zoning, training respectively. We produce a variety of different kiosks that are built stronger than stick built construction.
We are experiecing rapid growth and even at a kiosk a week our production schedule is full until mid-Febuary. I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.
We build drive thrus in Columbia, SC. We have dedicated staff in the areas of site location, zoning, training respectively. We produce a variety of different kiosks that are built stronger than stick built construction.
We are experiecing rapid growth and even at a kiosk a week our production schedule is full until mid-Febuary. I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.
Cre8ive_being
New member
If I am planning on purchasing two espresso machines for a drive-thru, is it feasible to make one of them a semi-automatic and the other one fully automatic? Or would that create more problems? Any opinions?
Leah
New member
Columbia
you build coffee kiosk in Columbia? Site location? Zoning? And even training? Oh - tell me more.
you build coffee kiosk in Columbia? Site location? Zoning? And even training? Oh - tell me more.
rockstar
New member
Prefab Coffee Drive Thru or Not...
Whether you go prefab or not there's a company that can sell you just the plans for the building. They know what they are doing when designing a building for drive thru use only so it's set up efficiently.
Whether you go prefab or not there's a company that can sell you just the plans for the building. They know what they are doing when designing a building for drive thru use only so it's set up efficiently.
demetri
New member
Re: Prefab Coffee Drive Thru or Not...
Would it be your company? Please no more URL dropping, you've done enough already.
rockstar said:
Would it be your company? Please no more URL dropping, you've done enough already.
moabsdailygrind
New member
We were lucky because my husband actually is a contractor, so we only had to hire out for the electric and plumbing. I am glad we went with our own design because it gave it much more character. We have one other drive-thru in town who went with pre-fab and it just doesn't have the same charm and uniqueness as ours. Our town requires natural colors, so we went with the rustic board and batton look, and get nothing but compliments. We live in a tourist town and people are always stopping to take pictures of the building! I imagine you have already made a decision, but my reccommendation is contractor all the way.
CafeBlue
New member
Cre8tive;
I recommend installing similar if not identical espresso machines in your location/locations. Identical machines (or a 2 group and 3 group of the same model) will save you on training, quality standards, recipe standards, spare parts inventory, etc.
You might also consider installing only one machine on initial build-out and "roughing in" the plumbing and electrical for the second machine. That way your start-up capital cost is reduced, yet you have an easy upgrade to add capacity. Your equipment vendor might even put a second machine "on hold" for you until you are open.
I noticed this is a revived thread and you are likely beyond the start-up stage...perhaps someone else will be considering similar options.
I recommend installing similar if not identical espresso machines in your location/locations. Identical machines (or a 2 group and 3 group of the same model) will save you on training, quality standards, recipe standards, spare parts inventory, etc.
You might also consider installing only one machine on initial build-out and "roughing in" the plumbing and electrical for the second machine. That way your start-up capital cost is reduced, yet you have an easy upgrade to add capacity. Your equipment vendor might even put a second machine "on hold" for you until you are open.
I noticed this is a revived thread and you are likely beyond the start-up stage...perhaps someone else will be considering similar options.
JACK
New member
DRIVE THRU COFFEE SHOPS
i BUILD DRIVE-THRU BUILDINGS WITH ONE OR TWO WINDOWS.E-MAIL FOR MORE INFO :-D JACK
i BUILD DRIVE-THRU BUILDINGS WITH ONE OR TWO WINDOWS.E-MAIL FOR MORE INFO :-D JACKRMC
New member
What building to choose
Hi,
I'm new here. I'm very excited to be a member of a forum where we can support one another. I believe that if we all have the goal of helping one another to realize our dreams, we can all benefit. Anyway, I have been researching things for about 6 months. I will open a shop within the next year. That may seem like a long time, but I cannot afford to make many costly mistakes and need to anticipate as many obsticals as possible. Regarding the building, you have 2 choices - prefab or new construction. Both have merits. A prefab structure is far more expensive, plus you still have to research the city codes, deal with the red tape, and bear the cost of site development. On the other hand, it is faster and it "appears" almost overnight. If you are prepared, you can begin operations within a week. This appeals to community members. With new construction, usually a good local contractor is familiar with local requirments and will include the site development in their plans and quote. My building will cost almost half as much than if I'd have gone with a prefab. However, it will take a much longer time to build and I will loose the shock value of the prefab. Some of my market will already have formed an opinion about my operation before I even open. Finally, I'm not sure how this is going to play out financially. My loan & lease payments will be due each month whether I am opened or not. If you can cover the short-term loss, new construction is the most economic route. Sorry for long winded response.
Hi,
I'm new here. I'm very excited to be a member of a forum where we can support one another. I believe that if we all have the goal of helping one another to realize our dreams, we can all benefit. Anyway, I have been researching things for about 6 months. I will open a shop within the next year. That may seem like a long time, but I cannot afford to make many costly mistakes and need to anticipate as many obsticals as possible. Regarding the building, you have 2 choices - prefab or new construction. Both have merits. A prefab structure is far more expensive, plus you still have to research the city codes, deal with the red tape, and bear the cost of site development. On the other hand, it is faster and it "appears" almost overnight. If you are prepared, you can begin operations within a week. This appeals to community members. With new construction, usually a good local contractor is familiar with local requirments and will include the site development in their plans and quote. My building will cost almost half as much than if I'd have gone with a prefab. However, it will take a much longer time to build and I will loose the shock value of the prefab. Some of my market will already have formed an opinion about my operation before I even open. Finally, I'm not sure how this is going to play out financially. My loan & lease payments will be due each month whether I am opened or not. If you can cover the short-term loss, new construction is the most economic route. Sorry for long winded response.
RMC
New member
Prefab or new construction?
In response to moabsdailygrind's comment, I agree with what she said. However, you could still go prefab and simply pay a local contractor to install whatever facade you want. This way you could achieve the look, though not the actual architecture, you desire without building from scratch.
In response to moabsdailygrind's comment, I agree with what she said. However, you could still go prefab and simply pay a local contractor to install whatever facade you want. This way you could achieve the look, though not the actual architecture, you desire without building from scratch.
