mawil1013
New member
Comments please..
You comments please on my extraction video.
- Thread starter mawil1013
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Comments please..
John P
Active member
So....
Rather than dismissing what you asked or being patronizing, here are my professional observations.
In short. Dude, that's bad... really bad.
But you knew that or you wouldn't ask. So huge thumbs up for being smart enough to ask for feedback.
Espresso flow starts way too soon... at 3 seconds rather than 7 or 9 or... no crema whatsoever, so beans are old and stale. Espresso blondes at 11 seconds which is an indication of too coarse, and/or not enough grounds along with the previously mentioned old/stale beans.
I'm guessing inexpensive grinder or pre-ground.
It is obviously early in the game for you as you seem to lack the most basic knowledge. There is a lot of great information available.
Here is a good place to start -
http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide.html and then continue reading the other guides after that.
Keep at it.
Rather than dismissing what you asked or being patronizing, here are my professional observations.
In short. Dude, that's bad... really bad.
But you knew that or you wouldn't ask. So huge thumbs up for being smart enough to ask for feedback.Espresso flow starts way too soon... at 3 seconds rather than 7 or 9 or... no crema whatsoever, so beans are old and stale. Espresso blondes at 11 seconds which is an indication of too coarse, and/or not enough grounds along with the previously mentioned old/stale beans.
I'm guessing inexpensive grinder or pre-ground.
It is obviously early in the game for you as you seem to lack the most basic knowledge. There is a lot of great information available.
Here is a good place to start -
http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide.html and then continue reading the other guides after that.
Keep at it.
- Thread Starter
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- #3
thumps UP!from Alex the goat milk latte guy :+)
I worked with a group of; 'born and raised in Italy' fellows for about two years. They couldn't get going in the morning until they had their espresso. They used a DeLonghi EC155, and a bag of pre-ground Illy, plus a huge amount of sugar. Stir and downed quickly. They didn't fuss about it either, dumped in the pre-ground beans that had been sitting in a bag in the cupboard, leveled and tamped with the attached disk. They were happy with it. So if a group of born and raised Italians can't be trusted to learn from, I don't know who is! One of them was fussy but only about Neapolitan Pizza, having attended a training course on how to made it according to legal standards! I'd like to see the same thing outside of Italy, an Italian course on how they make their everyday espresso. But back to Italians and their espresso, I was amazed with the huge amount of sugar they added to their shot, 3 heaping teaspoons, so, 6 teaspoons! Therefore I have no guilt nor shame when I drop my espresso into steamed milk with sugar and cocoa, I like it. The cocoa and coffee seem to have an affinity towards each others, like a man to his woman! The machine I used to create the video is a DeLonghi ECP3420, with same pumping ability as an EC155 but a much better steamer. The bean I used was a mixture of three totally different beans combined and ground on my Baratza Encore; conical burr grinder set at 6, portafilter with two level DeLonghi scoops, then the portafilter leveled and lightly tamped. I did use the old EC155 portafilter with the valve intact. Once I use up my triple blend and go back to a single bean I'll start working with the portafilter with the spring valve removed. So, I'm just having fun, my little hobby for my morning Cocoa Latte! I'm the exact same way with my barbecue cooking. When many others seem to believe the most expensive cooker will get them were they need to go, I paid $35 for a used natural gas kitchen oven/stove, removed all the gas lines, removed the metal that was in between the oven and the drawer under it. Coals go into drawer under meat and meat lays on oven racks. I have a wonderful barbecue cooker where I can cook meat over coals. Same for fishing, here in USA they aren't happy without having a $20,000 boat and trailer with a $35,000 truck to haul it plus $10,000 of fishing gear, when I'm happy from the shore casting out with a float! Idiots! (I think that is what the Italian man would say!)
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- #4
Goat milk, certainly, u must use what is available. I use powdered milk that has been reconstituted with water for my Latte's. You are to be commended for teaching, that is wonderful. Are you Christian? I'm Bahá'í and teaching is considered as a very honorable act. I'm retired but my wife Yvonne, is still working for one more year before she retires. Her family is from Puerto Rico but she grew up in Brooklyn, NY, and they were raised drinking Bustello coffee brand made in a Moka espresso pot!
~Michael
~Michael
Musicphan
Well-known member
I would grind a little finer to see if that will slow down your shot a bit... I agree with John it run's too fast. And make sure you have the freshest beans available - with espresso freshness is the key.. ideally a few days off roast > 2/3 weeks is best.
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- #6
Fresh beans are impossible for me, it's just for me. My wife has instant. When I buy a bag of beans it's usually only sold in 12-16 oz., I keep it stored in refrigerator tightly sealed in original bag and the inside zip lock. I always allow beans to reach room temperature before opening bag to refill grinder bin. I had reached a point where if I tamp normally it won't allow water through. I think having three bean styles is perhaps limiting me. It was an experiment in reducing a harsh bean. I also get better results if I stop pump immediately after first drip than proceed, gets Crema much sooner.
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- #7
It stops flow with normal tamp. Grinder is set at six and if I go smaller it just won't allow tamping. I think I confused it when I mixed three beans styles and varieties together! LOL but it still tastes good in my Latte. I've been trying to increase Crema for kicks, but it isn't really need for a Latte I think. (nope to Iran, my grandparents were farmers in the American Midwest. My late wife who passed from lung cancer in 2007 and I became Bahai after we moved to South Carolina from the Midwest. It's quite a goofy world, my current wife never touched foot in Puerto Rico until we went there to get married in 2010. She is an inactive Catholic!
Belize has a large Bahai group and South Carolina too.
shadow745
Well-known member
We all start somewhere and if YOU are satisfied with the end result that is all that matters. I'm a firm believer in using what you have/can afford and maximizing it. I have gone the full spectrum in the last 9-10 years from a basic pump machine to higher end home machines, to a manual lever, to a 2 group commercial... same with grinders... My daily driver is a Rancilio Silvia/Rocky and what I extract from it/my home roast setup is easily on par with any of the tens of thousands of doubles I've extracted from equipment costing much more. People always mention spending more, but that isn't always necessary or possible. Fresh coffee, skill and determination are key, then the grinder and machine follow.
Based on the video the coffee appears to be stale, could be ground a bit finer, but you are using a pressurized setup which is a limiting variable. Having said that, I'd try drinking it straight as I have likely had worse at one point.
I would skip spending much time reading on some other forums, especially Home-Barista. Yes there is some useful info there and we can all learn something new every day, but quite a few of the members are self-entitled 'elitists' in their own minds, lmao.
Based on the video the coffee appears to be stale, could be ground a bit finer, but you are using a pressurized setup which is a limiting variable. Having said that, I'd try drinking it straight as I have likely had worse at one point.
I would skip spending much time reading on some other forums, especially Home-Barista. Yes there is some useful info there and we can all learn something new every day, but quite a few of the members are self-entitled 'elitists' in their own minds, lmao.
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- #10
I do feel adequate espresso is being made, by me. I am sure it is stale by standards. But like I mentioned, it's just me doing one a day. So it's impossible to avoid. Considering bags of beans are 12-16 oz. For a while I had local access to smaller amounts but the coffee shop closed and it was expensive. Nothing that I can do except keep the beans in storage in tight bags, I have a Food Saver with multi layer freezer quality vacuum bags. I do what I can. All that said, I'm happy except with my lazyness in practicing. I've read lack of Crema doesn't make for bad taste. I've guessed, perhaps wrongly, that more Crema indicates an optimum shot at ideal grind/tamp/pressure? Also I'm not the stop watch kind! LOL I made a second shot today and tamped a little harder as well as stop water as soon as I see it, counting to five seconds, than turning water back on seems to give a decent Crema sooner. But it's all for giggles to me. I am alternating between pure Latte and cocoa with sugar Latte, learning that the pure Latte can indeed be a satisfying experience too!
shadow745
Well-known member
Crema is more from freshness than any other factor. Grind, tamp, pressure all play a part though.
I've never gone by time, volume or the latest fad... extraction ratios. Never at home or commercially. Have always extracted/made changes based on taste, texture, color, flow rate, etc. When you do something long enough with all different types of equipment/coffees you get a knack for exactly how something is working. Chasing numbers is for the newbies IMBHO.
How do you limit yourself to just one double daily? I 'limit' myself to 3-4 and can do so rather cheaply as I've been home roasting for over 1 year now. Typical 19 gram double shot costs me about .30, so no complaints there.
I've never gone by time, volume or the latest fad... extraction ratios. Never at home or commercially. Have always extracted/made changes based on taste, texture, color, flow rate, etc. When you do something long enough with all different types of equipment/coffees you get a knack for exactly how something is working. Chasing numbers is for the newbies IMBHO.
How do you limit yourself to just one double daily? I 'limit' myself to 3-4 and can do so rather cheaply as I've been home roasting for over 1 year now. Typical 19 gram double shot costs me about .30, so no complaints there.
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- #12
Snip: Have always extracted/made changes based on taste, texture, color, flow rate, etc. When you do something long enough with all different types of equipment/coffees you get a knack for exactly how something is working. Chasing numbers is for the newbies IMBHO.
>just like BBQ, experience, by the looks and by feel, no temperature probe nor clock.
How do you limit yourself to just one double daily?
Waking up at 3AM if I over do it.
>just like BBQ, experience, by the looks and by feel, no temperature probe nor clock.
How do you limit yourself to just one double daily?
Waking up at 3AM if I over do it.
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CoffeeDude1
New member
1) Adjust / remove the sound. The sound of the machine mixed with whatever background talking, etc. is very distracting.
2) Those shots are more of a "What not to do." Pour starts too soon, sputtering, quickly goes straw colored - over extracting portions, i.e. not a good grind/tamp.
I recommend that you show the whole process: 1) Show fresh beans, 2) Show proper grind, 3) Show proper tamping. I would also use a naked portafilter. I was making espresso for years prior to purchasing an naked portafilter. Thought my shots were good, but the naked portafilter showed the truth. IMO there is no better tool for learning proper espresso preparation than a naked portafilter.
2) Those shots are more of a "What not to do." Pour starts too soon, sputtering, quickly goes straw colored - over extracting portions, i.e. not a good grind/tamp.
I recommend that you show the whole process: 1) Show fresh beans, 2) Show proper grind, 3) Show proper tamping. I would also use a naked portafilter. I was making espresso for years prior to purchasing an naked portafilter. Thought my shots were good, but the naked portafilter showed the truth. IMO there is no better tool for learning proper espresso preparation than a naked portafilter.
John P
Active member
Shadow745,
Agreed. Great response.
Unfortunately too many people cannot think for themselves and take things too literally. Every competent barista, professional or otherwise, that I know diagnoses and brews based on your described method. That being said, you and I both know that there are definite indicators and windows that all things will fall into. Above all, it's learning to diagnose by taste. Flow and texture will get you in the ball park. As I mentioned in an earlier post, people end up chasing numbers rather than chasing flavor. Numbers are a great way to communicate to each other to explain what you have done... but it's not how you get/got there in the first place.
I learned from a "traditional" Italian background. We learned how to pull single shots just as easily as a double and learned to tamp and dose by feel. The one thing that I am sure you find is that if you weigh what you dose/tamp you will find out you are incredibly consistent when you practice and learn the way you are. Without understanding from a practical standpoint HOW you got from point A to point B, the numbers are meaningless.
Agreed. Great response.
Unfortunately too many people cannot think for themselves and take things too literally. Every competent barista, professional or otherwise, that I know diagnoses and brews based on your described method. That being said, you and I both know that there are definite indicators and windows that all things will fall into. Above all, it's learning to diagnose by taste. Flow and texture will get you in the ball park. As I mentioned in an earlier post, people end up chasing numbers rather than chasing flavor. Numbers are a great way to communicate to each other to explain what you have done... but it's not how you get/got there in the first place.
I learned from a "traditional" Italian background. We learned how to pull single shots just as easily as a double and learned to tamp and dose by feel. The one thing that I am sure you find is that if you weigh what you dose/tamp you will find out you are incredibly consistent when you practice and learn the way you are. Without understanding from a practical standpoint HOW you got from point A to point B, the numbers are meaningless.
