Why Peet's make better espresso than I?

[vasyoktrubachov]

My point exactly with the PID dependency... Let your machine warm up 30 mins minimum as that allows all the components to be super heated. Try flushing a few ounces out of the group, then lock the portafilter/basket in and extract regardless of what temperature is on the display. A PID simply helps keep the boiler water temperature in the programmed range, no more/no less.

When I say "control brew temperature" that is just what I mean. If you control brew temperature/pressure/flow rate you can extract good espresso consistently from pretty much any machine.

For example, I have been using my KitchenAid Pro Line machine for years now. It's nothing more than a double boiler Gaggia Classic in a KA housing. I let it warm up 30 minutes, then flush a few ounces out of the group, the thermostat kicks ON... takes about 12 seconds to kick OFF, then I let it stabilize for 20 seconds, lock the portafilter in and extract. That is the sweet spot that I've found to work great with my favorite coffee and it's spot on pretty much every time. Over the years I've owned or used a Nuova Simonelli Aurelia, La Marzocco Linea, La Marzocco FB80, Olympia Cremina, Isomac Relax and the KA Pro Line. Grinder wise it's been a Baratza Vario, Capresso Infinity, Nuova Simonelli MDX, Nuova Simonelli Grinta, Mazzer Super Jolly, KitchenAid Pro Line with 58mm Mazzer Mini burrs and a 50+ year old KyM conical burr hand mill. At home and commercially I've extracted tens of thousands of double shots in a 5-6 year period. Point I'm trying to make is my simple home equipment gives me espresso that is easily 95% as tasty/consistently as the best extractions I've achieved with all other equipment I've had the pleasure of working with.

Of course skill and fresh coffee are the most important factors IMBHO. So many people go on and on about the grinder, etc., but without a decent skill set, understanding of what variables contribute to espresso extraction and fresh coffee you're missing out.

shadow745, thank you for your reply. It actually goes in line with another thread, which I started some time ago - about limited value of PID...

I understand exactly what you are saying. And this is the last point I want to bring to this discussion. A couple of days ago I was on the trip 300 miles away from where I live. I stopped at Peet's coffee, and was amazed by the quality and consistency of their espresso. I use their beans (the same Espresso Forte, which they use for espresso), and the taste is very similar. But the quality is way higher at Peet's. It is smooth, less sour and less bitter at the same time! How could this be?!

There is one more ingredient to this, which echos your point and the whole PID topic. The big difference between home and commercial coffee is that we warm our machine for some short period of time, and they keep it turned on the whole day. I notice my home machine (I use PID, temperature 203F) gives me the best result between 20 and 30 min of warming. Less - and coffee is sour with light crema. More - and it is bitter with the dark crema. There is no salvation in running several ounces of water. If it is on for 40 min, the coffee will be overdone. So my suspicion is that if I turn my machine for the whole day, I could have found a temperature, at which sort of equilibrium occurs, and at which I could have produced my shots one after another. But this is not the case! At home we don't do this.

Still, it does not explain the difference in quality. I cannot brag extensive barista skills, but I am convinced what I could have done at home, I did do. It could remain a mystery forever, but I suspect, and this will go against your believe, that it is coming from superb control over water temperature during the whole time of extracting.

 

[Robertlee]

It may not be the machine but the bean. There was a Dangerous Grounds episode where a five star hotel wanted its own espresso for its incredibly complex and royally expensive machine. The show went on for some considerable depth about which beans and which roast makes the best espresso. Check it out.

 

[vasyoktrubachov]

It may not be the machine but the bean. There was a Dangerous Grounds episode where a five star hotel wanted its own espresso for its incredibly complex and royally expensive machine. The show went on for some considerable depth about which beans and which roast makes the best espresso. Check it out.

The only reason I compare my home espresso to Peet's is because I use the same beans as them.

 

[PinkRose]

The only reason I compare my home espresso to Peet's is because I use the same beans as them.

Maybe they're selling you their older beans, and they use the fresher ones to make the espresso in the shop.

You're probably never going to get your espresso to be exactly like theirs. You'll eventually learn to enjoy the coffee that you make at home, especially after you go visit another roaster and try something new.

 

[vasyoktrubachov]

They say they receive fresh beans once a week, I do not see any reason not to trust they give me the same beans. Also I tried many other shops, and found Peet's to be the best for espresso in terms how they roast.

As for the second point, you are absolutely correct. After some learning, experimentation and adjusting my technic, with this post I finish my quest, and will just enjoy the coffee I make at home.