POLL: WHAT'S WRONG WITH STARBUCKS?

[kimbica]

Starbucks

What I really dislike about Starbucks:

1. They have coldly pushed out of business many small shops, many of which were profitable and worked hard to educate their little markets who did not know what a "mocha" was, much less what a Venti Skinny Caramel No Whip Latte" was.

2. They have educated the public to expect espresso to taste bitter, so that people are afraid to even try it in another shop.

3. They force their employees to smile. This is marketing at its best, manipulation at worst. I know this for a fact as I am a mystery shopper.

4. They use their boundless resources and aggressive reps to avail themselves of the very best locations for shops, often before the space is even made available to local brokerages. This does not represent a level playing field for folks who would like to do something independent.

5. Their coffee is roasted too dark to appreciate the nuances of flavor that varietals can offer. This undermines the value of their "education" of the coffee drinking public.

6. Their shops are all the same, except that some are bigger, some smaller, some with drive-thru and some without. It is amazing to me that people drive to these stores to sit there in the "atmosphere". It's really marketing genius, as personality is certainly lacking...

7. The organic milk option they offer comes in a Parmalat style box. The most healthy milk option is ruined by being heat treated to be shelf stable.

I could go on, but I don't want to hog the forum. :lol:

I hope I have a chance to compete with one directly in the future. I plan to start a shop but I am patiently waiting for a great location.

 

[ElPugDiablo]

Re: Starbucks

What I really dislike about Starbucks:

1. They have coldly pushed out of business many small shops, many of which were profitable and worked hard to educate their little markets who did not know what a "mocha" was, much less what a Venti Skinny Caramel No Whip Latte" was.

2. They have educated the public to expect espresso to taste bitter, so that people are afraid to even try it in another shop.

3. They force their employees to smile. This is marketing at its best, manipulation at worst. I know this for a fact as I am a mystery shopper.

4. They use their boundless resources and aggressive reps to avail themselves of the very best locations for shops, often before the space is even made available to local brokerages. This does not represent a level playing field for folks who would like to do something independent.

5. Their coffee is roasted too dark to appreciate the nuances of flavor that varietals can offer. This undermines the value of their "education" of the coffee drinking public.

6. Their shops are all the same, except that some are bigger, some smaller, some with drive-thru and some without. It is amazing to me that people drive to these stores to sit there in the "atmosphere". It's really marketing genius, as personality is certainly lacking...

7. The organic milk option they offer comes in a Parmalat style box. The most healthy milk option is ruined by being heat treated to be shelf stable.

I could go on, but I don't want to hog the forum. :lol:

I hope I have a chance to compete with one directly in the future. I plan to start a shop but I am patiently waiting for a great location.

I respectfully disagree. I compete against Starbucks, Dunkin' Donuts and a few indies in Hartford. If I were coldly pushed out that is because I cannot compete. That being the case, then I have no right being in the business in the first place. I will blame no one but myself. More often than not consumers like what they are getting from Starbucks, otherwise Starbucks will not be where they are now. Of course Starbucks educate people to think their way, as I educate my employees and customers my way, and it is up to other operators to educate consumers the right way according to them. If you think Starbucks roasted too dark, then offer lighter roasted coffee. If you think people don’t like Starbucks espresso, let them try yours and grab customers away from them. I find absolutely no fault that they "forced" their employees to smile. I'd rather be greeted with a smile, forced or otherwise, than be greeted by an unfriendly, indifferent, or down right rude counter person or being ignored all together. I have two rules that I demand, call it force if you will, my employees to follow. 1) Greet customers promptly and with a smile. 2) No bad mouthing competitors.

 

[richedie]

Starbucks coffee always has the same distinct taste so you either like it or not.......

I was told that they use twice the amount of coffee as most....hence the strong, almost bitter taste. If you use two scoops, they use four.

 

[kimbica]

$tarbucks

El Pug, thanks for your honest response to my post. I was actually hoping someone would disagree so that I can have hope that in my city independent coffeehouses that know what they are doing can continue to coexist with the Starbucks popping up everywhere. I will concede one important strength this company has achieved: consistency. Many small operators are lacking this in their drink preparation and it could be fixed with more training of their staff at regular intervals.

Again, thanks for your perspective. While I still feel a little perturbed at Starbucks, I confess I have bought a latte or two when there were no independent shops nearby. I can't drink their regular coffee however; it is just too dark for my taste. I feel their beverages need lots of milk, sugar, or some combo of the two.


-K

 

[ElPugDiablo]

When I go to a new place, I always look into the indies first. If they are good, I go there, if not, I go to Starbucks. I recently had some Starbucks Guatamala. It was well roasted and not that dark. Their Kenya on the other hand was too dark for me.

Here is a NPR report talking about competing against Starbucks.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5381997

In fact, there are folks out there who purposely open next to Starbucks, fuguring Starbucks already scoped out the location for them. Afterall what are the three most important things in retail? location, location, location.

 

[La Crema Coffee]

They often have and Exclusionary lease agreement that prohibits smaller or any other coffee related buizz in the complex that they occupy. At least that's what Iv'e encountered. Also Charbuck$ earned that name...hehe

 

[Cele]

actually i don't dislike a starbucks
they have nice muffins
some of the coffees are very nice others are horrible but that's the same with most small ones as well

what anoys me that the taste actually does change from shop to shop and also i miss hte athmosphere
but as someone rightly said
then don't go there

if it is 7.30 in the morning on saturday and nothing else is opne
sb is not the worst that could happen to you

 

[unit_number_43]

I don't see why people keep comparing starbucks to local shops. That's like comparing McDonalds to your moms burgers.

The coffee is over roasted, absolutely. Because they sell millions of bags a day. If a customer got different flavors in each bag they'd freak, Starbucks would be exchanging hundreds of pounds of coffee an hour because "it doesn't taste the same as last time". They order massive amounts of beans, and burn them to keep the flavor consistent.

Starbucks tailors to the masses, not the elite. If Starbucks didn't exist their clients would be driving through McDonalds or stopping at a gas station for their coffee. These aren't the kinds of people that sit down, sip some joe, and listen to a poetry reading. I love the small coffee shop scene, with live acoustic music and artsy decor. That's not everyone though.

I don't like hanging out at starbucks, there's no atmosphere, no depth. It's straight laced and business conscience, and the drip coffee is weak. But stacking them against local roasters and shops is a cheap shot, and in my opinion and undeserved one.

 

[topher]

Just got back from Scotland...I only saw 3 Starbucks while I was there...Costa coffee has a huge pressence there! I got a lot of funny looks when I asked for "filtered" coffee a.k.a drip...the only drip coffee I had was from Starbux. Everyone else served espresso based drinks.

 

[harpua]

Confusing the customer to sell more lattes

one word....

Macchiato


Call a Latte a Latte.

 

[aeneas1]

there's nothing wrong with starbucks imo - if not for sb most independents would still be struggling to get a buck for a cup of joe and the high profit specialty coffee drink, gourmet coffee racket would be non-existent or, at least, nowhere close to what it is today...

sure, shops have closed due to the fierce competition sb has brought to the table but many, forced to retool or perish, have also flourished. sb made their competition better, which is usually the case when competition is introduced, and that is good news for the consumer. if it weren't for sb, i know i sure as %$#% wouldn't be able to charge $3+ for $.28 of product!

what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, no?

 

[topher]

ummm....read back on this post...just want to be clear that I have never bashed starbux or any other coffee company...on that note...where do you get .28 for a drink? I mean if you break it down it is alot more than 28 cents??!! Break it down...the employee alone costs(if you are paying $8 an hour) is 13 cents a min...so figure it takes 2 mins to put a drink together...that is 26 cents right there...total with cup, product wage before rent and machinery...you are looking at about $1.20 for a latte...I could be wrong and correct me if I am...remember people are in business to make money...

 

[aeneas1]

sure, wages are part of the equation - and so is worker's comp, liabilty coverage, utilities, rent, licenses & fees, payroll taxes, etc., etc., etc... but i was referring to my cogs expense which, apparently, wasn't obvious to some - sorry about the confusion.

as far as you bashing or not bashing sb is concerned, i'm pretty certain that i made absolutely no reference to this in my post - so why do you ask that i read back on the post to confirm this? i was just chiming in...

"remember people are in business to make money..." topher

n: frosty, i'm no good at this.
f: aw come on navin, you're doing fine.
n: i've already given away eight pencils, two hoola dolls and an ashtray and i've only taken in fifteen dollars.
f: navin, you have taken in fifteen dollars and given away fifty cents worth of crap, which gives us a net profit of fourteen dollars and fifty cents.
n: ah! it's a profit deal! takes the pressure off!

 

[topher]

sorry...this is a long thread and I wanted to be clear that I do not bash any coffee company..I was not implying that you where either. apparently, wasn't obvious to some - sorry about the confusion

I was speaking of cogs..I do not see how a latte cogs comes out to .28...the milkl alone is alomst that...throw soy into the mix and forgetabodit...cup, coffee and lid....aeneas1...I was not trying to pick a fight....I was just trying to figure out where you got your pricing info...

 

[Muddycup]

I sum it up like this, when starbucks comes to a town or neighborhood it's all about starbucks. When and independent opens its all about the community.