organic coffee or regular

[wmark]

As someone has mentioned before, most small plot holders can't afford shoes so how are they going to afford chemicals, let alone the USD $30,000 to pay some gringo to tell them that they are'nt using chemicals ?

 

[coffeeloverlisa]

Other than smoking cigars, drinking scotch and eating chocolate bars, I consider myself a health food nut.

In fact, when I drink at dinner, we always say, "to your health!".

Since I am not at the farm where the coffee grows, I have to completely take it on faith that what the package says on it about its organic features are true. And ask anyone who sells coffee packaging - good pouches are duplex or foil outside and plastic inside if the coffee is to have any shelf life at all. So forget about recycling.

So I will go for taste and try not to litter.

Cheers!

 

[coffeemannw]

I am a coffee roaster who purchases both organic, Fair Trade & conventional. I had a coffee importer tell me that there is no way to test the beans and identify if they are organic or not. The only way to know is through certification.

 

[thewilliams1]

Question re: the argument on organic vs. chemical additives.. if chemical fertilizers are used, how do you figure that all the poisons end up on the cherry skin? It makes sense if you are referring to pesticides and other topical additives, but large amounts of phosphates, nitrates and nitrites dumped into the ground has to show up in the bean itself, right?

But I'd have to drive home.. Fert's are Bad for People and the Earth. Farmers working with these ferts run the highest risk... and damaging the ground to such an extent that even an insect has trouble living in it has got to say something about the reality.

 

[coffeeloverlisa]

Ferts? Did he just write FERTS.

Ferts ferts ferts FERTS.

A new word is born for me.

 

[caffe biscotto]

I hear that ferts, used in conjunction with integrated pest management, don't smell as bad.

Also, in the early dawn it's generally pretty quiet in the coffee fields... until someone ferts.

 

[coffeeloverlisa]

Oh good. I thought it was just me.

I mean it was not me that ferted. I swear.

Oh damn. It was. Caught again.

 

[caffe biscotto]

Why do ferts stink?

So that deaf people can enjoy them also.

Ferts ferts ferts FERTS!

 

[coffeeloverlisa]

No....

So that deCaf people can enjoy them too, silly.

Ferts ferts ferts.

 

[ElPugDiablo]

Question re: the argument on organic vs. chemical additives.. if chemical fertilizers are used, how do you figure that all the poisons end up on the cherry skin? It makes sense if you are referring to pesticides and other topical additives, but large amounts of phosphates, nitrates and nitrites dumped into the ground has to show up in the bean itself, right?

But I'd have to drive home.. Fert's are Bad for People and the Earth. Farmers working with these ferts run the highest risk... and damaging the ground to such an extent that even an insect has trouble living in it has got to say something about the reality.

Are you suggesting things in organic fertilizer such as poopoo has to show up in the bean itself as well? If that is the case, I think I'll stick with the chemical stuff.

 

[thewilliams1]

Fert's - Landscaper Speak for Fertilizer.. the fertier the better

ElPug.. you're not serious, right? Nitrogen via chicken crap and other good-for-the-earth stuff, or a chemical-compound that acts similar to nitrogen but causes cancer in farming communities and poisons the water table?

humm.. tough call.

 

[caffe biscotto]

Fert's - Landscaper Speak for Fertilizer..

Boy is my face red then...

I was for sure we were talking about something else, sorry.

 

[ElPugDiablo]

Fert's - Landscaper Speak for Fertilizer.. the fertier the better

ElPug.. you're not serious, right? Nitrogen via chicken crap and other good-for-the-earth stuff, or a chemical-compound that acts similar to nitrogen but causes cancer in farming communities and poisons the water table?

humm.. tough call.

You are talking about two different things. First you said cancer causing chemical-compound "has to show up in the bean itself", now are you saying chemical fertilizer is harmful to the farming community. If we can go back to your original assertion; have you in your possession any study showing "chemical-compound that acts similar to nitrogen but causes cancer in farming communities" is indeed in non-organic coffee but is not in organic coffee? If yes I would appreciate you provide reference to back up your statement. Regarding its effect in the farming community, I don't know if working with feces is healthier than working with chemical fertilizer, but if sewer is in the water table, I would think that water is not exactly a health tonic. Regardless if it is feces or chemical stuff, if not handle properly, neither is good for you. To suggest non-organic coffee is a health risk due to fertilizer is a bit of stretch.

 

[thewilliams1]

You are talking about two different things. First you said cancer causing chemical-compound "has to show up in the bean itself", now are you saying chemical fertilizer is harmful to the farming community. If we can go back to your original assertion; have you in your possession any study showing "chemical-compound that acts similar to nitrogen but causes cancer in farming communities" is indeed in non-organic coffee but is not in organic coffee? If yes I would appreciate you provide reference to back up your statement. Regarding its effect in the farming community, I don't know if working with feces is healthier than working with chemical fertilizer, but if sewer is in the water table, I would think that water is not exactly a health tonic. Regardless if it is feces or chemical stuff, if not handle properly, neither is good for you. To suggest non-organic coffee is a health risk due to fertilizer is a bit of stretch.

My first assertion was a question: Do fertilizers end up in the bean itself? I am obviously not an expert on Organics, nor am I referencing any scholarly journal on the subject, but you can google and see for yourself.. studies have shown Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma has been found to have been caused by working with Chemical Fertilizers, and I am wondering if those chemicals end up in the final product? I don't know for certain, but I would assume they do. Would this pose a health risk if ingested? Again, I don't know, and if you do, by all means, please share... thats why I asked.

I buy, roast, sell and consume organic and non-organic coffees alike, and it bothers me none either way because the coffees I source have been responsibly grown and the communities that produce the coffees are treated fairly... that is what is important to me.

And I'm not asking you to go play in sewage or feces in the name of Organic either.. I'm not sure why you've decided to play "el diablo's" advocate on the subject here hahaha ... I enjoy the dialog.

 

[ElPugDiablo]

Oh, it was a question? I am sorry, I thought you were making a statement. To answer your question. There is no study I know showing non-organic coffee absorbing cancer causing substance from chemical fertilizer. If such study exist, I am sure tranfair, rainforest alliance and other cause based coffee organizations will be all over it.

I grew up in Taiwan when it was desperately poor; farmers then can't afford chemical fertilizer, so they used non-chemical fertilizer which is in fact playing with crap. I saw this first hand, believe me, it is not a better alternative to the chemical stuff.