Giving up on Keurig, tried stove-top perc, want to try French Press

[MntnMan62]

The Coffee Gator is an ok canister. I have one. But I find there are others that are almost identical that have the CO2 valve that are about $10 cheaper. I don't know of any canisters that actively push the air out of the canister. I am buying a second one for decaf beans and it won't be the Coffee Gator. I don't see anything about the Coffee Gator that makes it worth $10 more than the no name ones. And the Coffee Gator ones are made in China just like the others. So you're paying for the name. Don't over think the canister. Focus on your grinder, fresh beans and process. Then you'll start enjoying your coffee.

 

[Ultrarunner2020]

Thanks for the info MmtnMan62;
I just want to keep my beans fresh, as I will probably be buying 1lb at a time, and only be using a small amount (for one 16oz cup) every day, so I expect the beans will last me a while.

Edit: I just read a very simple, and possibly effective no-cost solution (but without the CO2 valve). Ziplok bag.
Just leave the beans in the bag they came in, and seal the whole thing into a large Ziplok bag. Squeeze Ziplock while zipping to remove as much air as possible.
Will this work?
IMHO, Ziplok bags are not what they used to be. I am constantly annoyed by the 'double-zipper' feature which is more difficult to engage than the one larger single one was.

Edit2: I can ask at the shop when I buy my fresh roasted beans.
Or, I could roast my own beans... I read that a hot-air popcorn popper can be used as a rudimentary coffee roaster. What do you think?

 

[MntnMan62]

Thanks for the info MmtnMan62;
I just want to keep my beans fresh, as I will probably be buying 1lb at a time, and only be using a small amount (for one 16oz cup) every day, so I expect the beans will last me a while.

Edit: I just read a very simple, and possibly effective no-cost solution (but without the CO2 valve). Ziplok bag.
Just leave the beans in the bag they came in, and seal the whole thing into a large Ziplok bag. Squeeze Ziplock while zipping to remove as much air as possible.
Will this work?
IMHO, Ziplok bags are not what they used to be. I am constantly annoyed by the 'double-zipper' feature which is more difficult to engage than the one larger single one was.

Edit2: I can ask at the shop when I buy my fresh roasted beans.
Or, I could roast my own beans... I read that a hot-air popcorn popper can be used as a rudimentary coffee roaster. What do you think?

I would recommend not using a ziplock bag. First of all, it allows light to get at the beans. Light is not the friend of beans you want to keep fresh for about a month. I say a month because I too only drink a cup or two a day so a pound lasts me about a month, sometimes longer. The other thing about a zip lock is that if you end up getting very freshly roasted beans, you will need to release the CO2 as the beans de-gas. The fresher the roast, the more CO2 is released early on. You don't want to have an exploding ziplock sending your precious beans all over your kitchen. A proper canister with a CO2 valve for between $15 adn $20 is money well spent. You don't need to spend more than that. It will keep out the light, keep out the oxygen and allow the CO2 to escape. Pretty simple.

As for roasting at home, I have no desire to do that. There is a steep learning curve associated with roasting beans and lots to know. How do you know what kind of green beans to get and from where? How do you judge the green beans for your desired taste and preferred type of roast? When do I stop the roasting? And then I've heard from those who do roast that roasting in the house is not advisable because the smell is incredibly pungent. So if you happen to live with a significant other, they may not take too kindly to your new hobby. But hey, if you have the time and patience to do it, more power to ya.

 

[Ultrarunner2020]

Thanks for the heads up. i was thinking I would keep the beans in the original bag, then place that into the ziplok, but I had forgotten about the CO2.
I'm not serious about roasting my own beans. I read that even the roasting house gets it wrong sometimes, leading to a bad batch, which you don't know about until you taste the brew. I guess that's a good reason to stick with a roaster once you find you like the beans and they are consistent.

Funny you should mention the smell of roasting coffee beans. I attended the Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken NJ back when Maxwell House was located just up the road. When the wind was right (or wrong), you would get that smell out on the field and around campus. It got to be really unpleasant sometimes. I didn't drink much coffee in those days...ha.

Edit: Just had a thought. Why does a canister need a CO2 release valve if you are opening it daily?
From what I have read, only freshly roasted beans (within the first day or two) will release a significant amount of CO2. So, wouldn't simply opening the lit to remove beans release all of the CO2?

 

[Ultrarunner2020]

I am actually starting to get some acceptable coffee from my beans, grinder, and the French Press.
While certainly not a really good cup of coffee, what I have been getting for the past two mornings is relatively good. More flavor, and not so much bitterness.
I have decreased the coffee to water ratio, so I am now using 1.5 oz beans to 16 fl oz water. This calculated to a 1:11.8 ratio, compared to the 1:13.8 ratio I was using before.
I have also been waiting nearly a full minute after the water boils in the (stovetop) tea kettle before pouring into the press.
I am still using a medium grind (in the Cusinart DBM-8) but this morning notched one towards coarse, so now I think I have it a 3rd notch on coarse side of medium.
I will be ordering the 1ZPresso JX very soon, but as I said in an earlier post, it won't be available (from Amazon) for shipment until 9/14.
I have, as you have already pointed out, that plunging does not affect the flavor or bitterness. Plunging does allow me to get the full 16 oz coffee from the pot. If I do not plunge, some liquid is left with the grounds on the bottom.
Last, but certainly not least, I am using Coffee Mate (liquid) creamer. I don't use much, and never add extra sweetner (there is plenty in the creamer) but I find it really makes a big difference in the 'acceptability' of the coffee. I am hoping though, that once I get better/fresher beans and the better grinder, I will be able to drink it black.

 

[MntnMan62]

I am actually starting to get some acceptable coffee from my beans, grinder, and the French Press.
While certainly not a really good cup of coffee, what I have been getting for the past two mornings is relatively good. More flavor, and not so much bitterness.
I have decreased the coffee to water ratio, so I am now using 1.5 oz beans to 16 fl oz water. This calculated to a 1:11.8 ratio, compared to the 1:13.8 ratio I was using before.
I have also been waiting nearly a full minute after the water boils in the (stovetop) tea kettle before pouring into the press.
I am still using a medium grind (in the Cusinart DBM-8) but this morning notched one towards coarse, so now I think I have it a 3rd notch on coarse side of medium.
I will be ordering the 1ZPresso JX very soon, but as I said in an earlier post, it won't be available (from Amazon) for shipment until 9/14.
I have, as you have already pointed out, that plunging does not affect the flavor or bitterness. Plunging does allow me to get the full 16 oz coffee from the pot. If I do not plunge, some liquid is left with the grounds on the bottom.
Last, but certainly not least, I am using Coffee Mate (liquid) creamer. I don't use much, and never add extra sweetner (there is plenty in the creamer) but I find it really makes a big difference in the 'acceptability' of the coffee. I am hoping though, that once I get better/fresher beans and the better grinder, I will be able to drink it black.

Whether you plunge or not, you leave the same amount of liquid behind. I do believe that plunging creates bitter coffee. That's why I don't do it. I may not have made that clear in a prior post. But you gotta do what you gotta do. Coffee Mate? Ugh. Regular milk would be a vast improvement. So, let me understand this. You are spending lots of time trying to evaluate the quality of your coffee that you make when you are using a crappy grinder, old stale beans and Coffee Mate? God man. Now I know why you can't seem to get a decent cup of coffee. Let us know when you have fresh beans, a decent grinder and you stop using that Coffee Mate garbage.

 

[shadow745]

I would recommend not using a ziplock bag. First of all, it allows light to get at the beans. Light is not the friend of beans you want to keep fresh for about a month. I say a month because I too only drink a cup or two a day so a pound lasts me about a month, sometimes longer. The other thing about a zip lock is that if you end up getting very freshly roasted beans, you will need to release the CO2 as the beans de-gas. The fresher the roast, the more CO2 is released early on. You don't want to have an exploding ziplock sending your precious beans all over your kitchen. A proper canister with a CO2 valve for between $15 adn $20 is money well spent. You don't need to spend more than that. It will keep out the light, keep out the oxygen and allow the CO2 to escape. Pretty simple.

As for roasting at home, I have no desire to do that. There is a steep learning curve associated with roasting beans and lots to know. How do you know what kind of green beans to get and from where? How do you judge the green beans for your desired taste and preferred type of roast? When do I stop the roasting? And then I've heard from those who do roast that roasting in the house is not advisable because the smell is incredibly pungent. So if you happen to live with a significant other, they may not take too kindly to your new hobby. But hey, if you have the time and patience to do it, more power to ya.

Home roasting is very fulfilling and I highly recommend it to anybody truly serious about the craft, BUT it is involved and does require quite an understanding of the process. For many years I bought from commercial roasters for home/commercial use and have done tens of thousands of extractions from thousands of pounds of fresh/quality coffee. I grew tired of the direction many roasters were taking with the lighter development, the cost, etc. I knew if others could successfully roast I damn sure could. I had consumed so much espresso I knew what origins, process methods, etc. I liked most. I devised/built my setup, bought some quality greens that had notes of the taste/texture I was looking for and I went to it. I've tried all sorts of greens, blends, SOs, etc. and have pretty much settled on a handful of blends and just a few SOs. What I try to keep onhand is pretty much available year round and is quite consistent batch-batch. Regarding the popper method... you can indeed get decent coffee from a popper, but the crazy fast times they roast at won't give much development for rich flavor, heavy body, etc. You can roast with pretty much anything provided you can control the heat, agitation, etc. Thing is to find something that works good for you and be able to repeat that. This is a fairly recent batch of a Brazil Daterra Reserve Espresso I did. Outstanding color, balance, etc. and was quite good in the demitasse.

 

[MntnMan62]

Home roasting is very fulfilling and I highly recommend it to anybody truly serious about the craft, BUT it is involved and does require quite an understanding of the process. For many years I bought from commercial roasters for home/commercial use and have done tens of thousands of extractions from thousands of pounds of fresh/quality coffee. I grew tired of the direction many roasters were taking with the lighter development, the cost, etc. I knew if others could successfully roast I damn sure could. I had consumed so much espresso I knew what origins, process methods, etc. I liked most. I devised/built my setup, bought some quality greens that had notes of the taste/texture I was looking for and I went to it. I've tried all sorts of greens, blends, SOs, etc. and have pretty much settled on a handful of blends and just a few SOs. What I try to keep onhand is pretty much available year round and is quite consistent batch-batch. Regarding the popper method... you can indeed get decent coffee from a popper, but the crazy fast times they roast at won't give much development for rich flavor, heavy body, etc. You can roast with pretty much anything provided you can control the heat, agitation, etc. Thing is to find something that works good for you and be able to repeat that. This is a fairly recent batch of a Brazil Daterra Reserve Espresso I did. Outstanding color, balance, etc. and was quite good in the demitasse.

View attachment 10765

If I were drinking espresso I'd probably jump into the roasting game. But I'm just doing french press so it really isn't worth it for me. Plus, I don't think I have the patience for it. If I do pick up the espresso thing I'd consider roasting once I got a handle on what I like in a bean.

 

[Ultrarunner2020]

Whether you plunge or not, you leave the same amount of liquid behind. I do believe that plunging creates bitter coffee. That's why I don't do it. I may not have made that clear in a prior post. But you gotta do what you gotta do. Coffee Mate? Ugh. Regular milk would be a vast improvement. So, let me understand this. You are spending lots of time trying to evaluate the quality of your coffee that you make when you are using a crappy grinder, old stale beans and Coffee Mate? God man. Now I know why you can't seem to get a decent cup of coffee. Let us know when you have fresh beans, a decent grinder and you stop using that Coffee Mate garbage.

Yes. I am ordering the 1ZPresso JX from Amazon now, but will have to wait two weeks before it arrives. Before ordering, I'll check to see if it's in stock somewhere else.
Once I get the grinder, I will purchase fresh beans locally.
I am going to try milk in my cup tomorrow morning. Thanks for reminding me about it. For some reason, I guess force of habit - I reach for the Coffee Mate.

 

[Ultrarunner2020]

Update: I ordered the 1ZPresso JX Pro (the JX is no longer available at Amazon, and on 1ZPresso website is indicated out of stock) and the AirScape 7inch (16oz beans) canister.
The AirScape should arrive by 9/3, but I'll have to wait until 9/9 for the grinder.
Once I have the grinder, I will buy my beans (from a local roaster).

 

[shadow745]

Big changes and you should definitely see a huge difference in flavor AND likely will really enjoy drinking it with nothing added. It's hard to beat a dialed in press for the coffee flavor, texture and price.

 

[Ultrarunner2020]

Hey guys;
Please bear with me on this long post, as I have been doing some experimentation with my new 1ZPresso JX Pro grinder and fresh beans.
I hope that you understand I am still a newbie in the coffee brewing game. I am going to make mistakes, misunderstand the science of the process, and probably read some misleading info in online blogs. So here goes:

I chose a medium/dark roast (recommended by the shop where I purchased them). The beans were roasted on-site but I don't know exactly how long they were sitting in the bag; my guess would be not more than a couple of days. They smelled absolutely delicious when I first opened the bag.

I have been experimenting with the variables; mostly grind and brew time.
I purchased an electric kettle, which displays temperature just before I start adding water to the grounds in the FP.
For all of my brews so far, I have set the kettle to 194F.

I started with a setting of 45 on the 1ZPresso JX Pro. This is midway through the recommended grind for French Press. Finest is 42, coarsest is 50 - the max coarse setting for the grinder.
I used a ratio of 1:12.3, using 480g water and 39g coffee beans.
I brewed my first cup by the simple method - no blooming, but I did stir after adding all of the water.
I timed the steep for 4 minutes.
The result was that I could not really detect any of the aromas this coffee is supposed to have, but the taste was ok. I drank it black.
There wasn't much bitterness (or sourness) but I thought there should have been a bit more flavor.

For my 2nd brew, I changed the grinder to a slightly finer setting of 42 (vs 45), but i also changed the ratio to 1:13.5 (increasing water by 5g and decreasing coffee by 3g). I realize that I should not have changed two values at the same time, but this was only my 2nd brew with the fresh beans.
I steeped for 4 minutes, as before.
The coffee seemed slightly less bitter, but still not as much flavor as I thought it should have.

I have been tweaking the steep time over the past few days, and getting some confusing results.
It seemed that when I decreased steep time, while keeping grind and ratio the same, I was getting a more bitter cup. This seemed contrary to what I have been reading.
I was thinking that a shorter brew time would produce less bitterness.
Then I got the idea to go a bit finer with the grind, notching the JX Pro down to 40. This is out of the range for FP (according to the 1ZPresso chart that was included with the grinder), but I figured that I didn't mind some fines in my cup.
At the same time I ground finer, I also reduced time to 3:00.
This seemed to produce a cup that was less bitter, and with a bit more flavor.

Today, I decided to do some experimentation with smaller amounts of coffee and water.
Grind: 45 (coarse)
Water: 120g
Coffee: 9.2g
Ratio: 1:13
Water temp: 194F

After reading this blog: https://angelscup.com/blog/taste/coffee-extraction-sour-vs-bitter/
I began experimenting with steep time; no bloom, but stirring after all water had been added.
The purpose of this experiment was to detect the difference between bitter and sour. I feel that I have been confused about this.

4:00. Some bitterness (or was it sourness), but not too bad.
8:00. Very bitter, yuk.
2:00 sour
5:00: Now I can smell some citrus aroma from the cup, but I cannot taste it.

I believe I can now tell the difference between bitter and sour. This should go a long way in helping me dial-in the settings.
As I now understand it, under-extraction causes sour, while over-extraction causes bitter.

Now another point I am confused about:
Until now, I have believed that when using a finer grind, you need to reduce steep time to prevent bitterness. The reason being that more surface area of the ground bean is exposed to the water, thus extraction will occur more rapidly.
But further down the page in the same blog I linked to above it states that a finer grind will slow down the extraction process. This is exactly the opposite of what I was lead to believe from other blogs and videos I have seen.
That said, James Hoffman does a 9 minute brew with finer grounds. But since he is scooping off the foam and whatever doesn't sink after stirring at 4:00, I don't think I can really compare his method to the more simple one so far as time goes.

At this point, I am somewhat confused, but still very interested in this process, and 'dialing-in' my perfect cup from the French Press. In my younger days, I might have given up in frustration, but I have a lot more patience now that I am older (and hopefully wiser). Doing the experimentation with much smaller brews has helped me understand what I am doing, without wasting too much coffee or getting me too jacked up on caffeine. Yes, I am drinking the coffee I brew during my experimentation.

Thank you for reading. I greatly appreciate all of the good advice you guys are giving me.

Ultrarunner

 

[MntnMan62]

You might want to keep everything the same but scoop off the foam and floating stuff after the 4 minute brew time. And you should actually taste the foam so you can see that if you are getting some bitterness you'll see that it could be coming from the foam and floaties. It sure tasted bitter to me when I tasted it early in my search for a good process. Keep playing with it. You'll eventually find something that works for you.

 

[Ultrarunner2020]

Thanks for that. Makes sense, as that is what JH does before he continues his brew for another 6 mins.
I guess one caveat of having a stainless steel pot is you can't see what's in there before removing the lid.
I'm thinking what I will start doing is to brew two 8oz pots rather than one 16oz each morning, until I nail it. That will give me two chances to experiment without spending too much time on it.

 

[Ultrarunner2020]

Firstly, let me apologize for the horrendously long post. I didn't realize how long it was going until I posted, but I do want to provide all the pertinent information.

I did not detect any difference in taste when I scooped off the crust after 4 minutes brewing. I was only able to scoop the crust, not so much the foam. The spoon I was using made it difficult to scoop the foam, but there wasn't much foam anyway; just a bit around the edges. There was quite a bit of grounds floating on top though.

I did a bit more experimenting today. Tweaking steep time, grind size, and then water temp - one value at a time.
I started with a grind setting on the JX Pro of 45, which is about midway in the zone for French Press, according to the chart supplied with the grinder by 1ZPresso. The coarsest setting is 50, and the recommended range for FP is 42-50.

Since my coffee seemed to be turning out sour, I decided to first change the grind size a bit finer, from 45 to 40 on the JX Pro. My thinking here is that a finer grind will extract faster, and thus less sourness with the same brew time.
Still steeping 4:00, the coffee was still sour, but not so much as with the grind at 45. I could detect a hint of citrus in the aroma, but not in the taste.
Next, I started playing with water temp, while keeping everything else the same.
It is difficult for me to know exactly what my water temperature is. My Hosome electric kettle has a temp display on the side, but it isn't so accurate. When comparing its readout to a Klein MM200 digital multimeter with thermocouple probe, the pot was always about 4F lower than the meter.
My meter was calibrated at the factory, but it is fairly old, and I have never had it checked against a standard.
I can say however that when its probe is immersed into boiling water it does read 212F. So I guess it's good enough.

One problem with the electric kettle is that once it reaches its setpoint (it has four settings), its display locks and will continue to display the set temp regardless of the actual water temp.
That said, it is quirky. When the setting was reached, the display jumped from 199 to 194 and it beeped. At that point, the multimeter was reading 203F.
This pot will always bring the water to a boil before dropping it back to the selected temp. This is a good thing, as it allows me to pour for my brew at a higher temperature than what i set.

I also measured the temperature drop when the water is poured from the kettle into the French Press; both preheated, and not preheated.
When I did not preheat the FP, the water temp dropped 10F from boiling to 202F (measured with the multimeter).
But when I preheated the FP for about 3 minutes with boiling water, the temp drop from the kettle to the FP was only 6F, when I poured water measured with the multimeter at 207F in the kettle.
I suppose I could skip preheating the FP if I pour water that is boiling, as it will immediately cool to 202F to start the brew.
Note that when I did the temperature drop experiment, I did not use any coffee. I would expect that the grounds will absorb some of the heat, so the drop might be slightly higher.
I may use the thermocouple probe in the FP for my next brew, but I have a thing about sticking a 'foreign' object into my coffee. Not that I ever used the probe for anything bad. I suppose I can wipe it with isopropyl alcohol before I use it in the coffee.

Would starting a brew with boiling water into a non-preheated French Press cause any problems with the coffee?

I also did a test to find how well my FP holds the heat.
I first preheated it with boiled water for 3 mins, then dumped the water and dried the FP. I don't think drying the FP is really necessary, but it has become a habit.
When I started with about 12oz water in the 34oz FP at a temp of 201F without grounds, the temp was 193F after 4 minutes with the cover on. I think that's more than acceptable.

When I started the brew with hotter water, the coffee seemed to taste less sour, had the citrus aroma, but still no real taste.
I finally increased steep time to 5:00, leaving all other values alone. The result was less sourness, a bit more aroma, but I still could not taste the flavor in the coffee.

I think I will next increase brew time to 5:30 or even 6:00, but I will brew only about 4oz to start with. Then, once I get some flavor, I'll brew 8oz or more.
About the lack of flavor: I don't think my beans are at fault, since they are definitely fresh.
I have thought about changing the ratio from 1:13 to 1:14, but from what I have read, the ratio isn't going to affect whether the coffee tastes sour, bitter, or neutral. It will only affect how much of each flavor is present. So I think I need to tweak the other values before I change ratio.

I suppose that my taste buds could be off. Or, perhaps I need to go finer with the grind?

But based on my last experiment this morning, I believe I am going in the right direction.

One final note: After drinking a small amount of my experimental sour coffee, I swooshed a mouthful of pure water and detected some sweetness in it.
I Googled, and sure enough, it does seem that pure water can taste sweet after drinking something sour.
I don't know whether the water would taste sweet after drinking something bitter, but I suppose I will find out soon enough, when I pass the neutral and get into bitter brew.
Interestingly, sometimes when I run hard or long, I notice a slightly sweet taste from the pure water in my bottle. I also Googled that, and it does seem to be a 'normal' thing for athletes.

I am considering sending an e-mail the the store (a local roaster) where I purchased my beans, and asking them for advice on this particular roast, which is called 'Legender - Brazil - Medium' from Roast'd Coffee in Ft. Lee NJ. Tasting notes: Dark chocolate, walnuts, citrus, smooth finish.

While all of this experimentation may be taking a bit of my time, I am enjoying it. I think that after all of the time and effort I am spending on this, I will enjoy my coffee all the more once I hit the 'sweet spot'.