nate...where are you located? I have done some training in the past. Not sure if I have time but if I do not I can turn you on to someone who does.... :wink: by the way...Ambex is automating their roasters....call Terry
First post, opening a shop, need roaster help...
- Thread starter infernalallison
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infernalallison
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hey topher I sent you a pm...thanks for all your help! Anybody else have any insights?
ElPugDiablo
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Go with a drum roaster. Learning how to roast is not hard, master the art of roasting is a life time of devotion. Go to Ambex or Deidrich's presentation, they will show you the first step, the rest if up to you. If you are worry about lack of experience, you can 1) buy a Hottop drum roaster for home for about $600 and roast at home, sweetmaria.com carries them. 2) you can visit bootcoffee.com, they offer classes that are not designed to sell you a roaster. I have heard nothing but great things about boot, and I plan to take some classes at boot sometime this year. 3) Visit your green beans suppliers, if they are any good, they will cup with you, and maybe they might know if some of their customers who are not your competitors are willing to share their know how with you. Just be careful not to pick up any of their bad habits.
Sivetz has his followers. Some of the best roasters in the country use Sivetz. I don't know anything about it, but if I were to look at drum roast alternative, Sivetz is where I will start.
Automation is not the end all. You will still need to know how you want your coffees to taste and develop YOUR roasting profile for different beans, automation will give you consistency from this point on. However, if profiles you developed brew bad tasting coffee, you will have bad coffee consistently. Also, you cannot develop these profiles just once, you need to constantly check your coffees as beans can be different from bag to bag, not to mention from year to year.
Or you can roast the heck out of your beans like Starbucks, then it doesn't matter what type of roaster you use.
Sivetz has his followers. Some of the best roasters in the country use Sivetz. I don't know anything about it, but if I were to look at drum roast alternative, Sivetz is where I will start.
Automation is not the end all. You will still need to know how you want your coffees to taste and develop YOUR roasting profile for different beans, automation will give you consistency from this point on. However, if profiles you developed brew bad tasting coffee, you will have bad coffee consistently. Also, you cannot develop these profiles just once, you need to constantly check your coffees as beans can be different from bag to bag, not to mention from year to year.
Or you can roast the heck out of your beans like Starbucks, then it doesn't matter what type of roaster you use.
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infernalallison
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great advice and info...thanks. Honestly I think I would prefer just learning along side a pro roaster who is willing to teach and give personal attention, than spend 1000 bucks to take classes. But that may be something I'll end up having to do. Home Roasting may be some good practice as well...I'll look into that. Thanks!
NW JAVA
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Yeah nevermind a Monster roaster just might not be what you want to learn on at home and use in your buisness. Anyway best wishes....
NW JAVA
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BTW I attended the Deidrich class when I bought my roaster,and had the best understanding of the roasting process, guess why? Myabe it was from roasting for my drive thru and a resturaunt with the Monster roaster. But like I said, I only wish you the best and to not waste money.
LiftOff
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Just buy a PopperyII (popcorn popper), put a glass hurricane globe on the top of it and voila!, a mini-monster roaster.
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infernalallison
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I was just pointed in the direction of a drum roaster from coffee/per called the SanFranciscan anybody know anything about those? The 6lb machine is good looking and sounds solid...any info?
www.coffeeper.com
Nate
www.coffeeper.com
Nate
phaelon56
New member
I just stumbled onto this thread after already exchanging some PM's with Nate. I took a look at the Javamasters site and recognized that machien right away - it's the same one that Jackson's Java in Charlotte NC uses at their University City Blvd. location.
It appears to be a fairly bulletproof machine - I"ve been going in there on occasion during the past two years when I've visited Charlotte and it's always running. It's automated enough that all the barista's are able to operate it but those I"ve spoken to are not thrilled with the small batch capacity as they have toi run it almost all day long in between their other duties. I also find their roasts to be too dark and oily but I don't believe this to be the fault of the roaster - it appears simply to be the desired roastign style of the owners.
I don't know who's in charge there but you might call them to get feedback on the unit and their experiences with support
Jackson's Java
704-548-1133
I do agree that there's a small bit of value in doing a bit of home roasting first. I started with a hot air popper and first learned to judge roast level by color. Then I switched to an Alpenroast and had to learn to judge by the sound of the cracks and the smell of the smoke (the Alp has no viewing window). This experience did help me to get accustomed to the concepts of roasting although with an automated and noisy fluid bed roaster (Sivetz) it's not practical to put any of these assessment skills into use.
I don't recommend the Sivetz roaster unless you have a dedicated roasting room that is properly sound insulated away form your retail customer space (it's really, really noisy). It's also not a good choice for someone who lacks the mechanical aptitude to deal with all the installation, training and support issues on their own - you won't get help from Sivetz - that's just the way it is for better or worse.
There are endless debates about whether fluid bed or drum roasting are equal in terms of the quality they can produce or whether one is slightly better than the other. To me the reality is that you can roast great coffee on either system if you have the skill, patience and willingness to learn.
I do think it's important to figure out what your weekly roast total might end up at after a year or two of being open - machines that roast no more than five pounds at a time can end up requiring a tremendous amount of time to operate when your volume increases.
It appears to be a fairly bulletproof machine - I"ve been going in there on occasion during the past two years when I've visited Charlotte and it's always running. It's automated enough that all the barista's are able to operate it but those I"ve spoken to are not thrilled with the small batch capacity as they have toi run it almost all day long in between their other duties. I also find their roasts to be too dark and oily but I don't believe this to be the fault of the roaster - it appears simply to be the desired roastign style of the owners.
I don't know who's in charge there but you might call them to get feedback on the unit and their experiences with support
Jackson's Java
704-548-1133
I do agree that there's a small bit of value in doing a bit of home roasting first. I started with a hot air popper and first learned to judge roast level by color. Then I switched to an Alpenroast and had to learn to judge by the sound of the cracks and the smell of the smoke (the Alp has no viewing window). This experience did help me to get accustomed to the concepts of roasting although with an automated and noisy fluid bed roaster (Sivetz) it's not practical to put any of these assessment skills into use.
I don't recommend the Sivetz roaster unless you have a dedicated roasting room that is properly sound insulated away form your retail customer space (it's really, really noisy). It's also not a good choice for someone who lacks the mechanical aptitude to deal with all the installation, training and support issues on their own - you won't get help from Sivetz - that's just the way it is for better or worse.
There are endless debates about whether fluid bed or drum roasting are equal in terms of the quality they can produce or whether one is slightly better than the other. To me the reality is that you can roast great coffee on either system if you have the skill, patience and willingness to learn.
I do think it's important to figure out what your weekly roast total might end up at after a year or two of being open - machines that roast no more than five pounds at a time can end up requiring a tremendous amount of time to operate when your volume increases.
OP
infernalallison
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Honestly the biggest problem I had with the javamaster was, not only did seems to have too much of a "commercial" feel, but the price tag (around 20 grand!) so that alone probably puts it out of the picture for me.
Ambex, Deidrich and San Fran seem to be my main choices at this point...this could change, but they seem be close in price point and quality.
Any more comments on all of this would help more than you all know...I am trying to get samples from each roaster and find anyone that is currently using them to see the machines in action.
They all offer training, but it may be better to visit or speak with someone who has used the machines for a while and see how its going.
Thanks to everyone for participating in this thread...I am so grateful!
Nate
Ambex, Deidrich and San Fran seem to be my main choices at this point...this could change, but they seem be close in price point and quality.
Any more comments on all of this would help more than you all know...I am trying to get samples from each roaster and find anyone that is currently using them to see the machines in action.
They all offer training, but it may be better to visit or speak with someone who has used the machines for a while and see how its going.
Thanks to everyone for participating in this thread...I am so grateful!
Nate
ourcoffeebarn
New member
I roast with a Diedrich IR3 and I LOVE IT! Roast a few batches and you can go it on your own. Diedrich sends a manual with complete instructions and the service is great!
NW JAVA
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As I said I roast with BOTH the IR-3 (love it, however it was about 1/3 more$, and training was required) and the Monster, which no training was ever required and my baristas never complained or messed up......( love it too, but not large enough)
NW JAVA
New member
re: " roast a few batches" You HAVE to roast around 30-50 lbs just to season the drum.
GeorgeW
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New Shope - roaster question
Hi Everyone,
I’m in the process of opening a specialty coffee shop, my original intention was to open a drive-through operation, but after 7 months of dealing with limitations due to codes, reluctance with potential land owners and other hassles, have decided instead to go the traditional café route.
Now, my question is related to this forum thread – My wife and I love coffee and espresso (hence our desire to open a café) however neither of us are experts. We really want to focus on quality, and quality means serving great drinks (read barista expertise) and having great beans.
We’re waffling between attending a week long barista course or hiring a consultant to train us on site, so we’ve got a learning curve to begin with just learning to prepare decent drinks at opening.
The next thing is arranging to have good (fresh!) beans. There is a local roaster in town, but I’m not real satisfied with the flavor of their beans. So, I’m considering roasting our own – but I have NO experience with roasting, beyond the little bit of reading I’ve done on the subject.
My question to you all is, with everything else we’re dealing with a new operation, would it be a mistake to try to undertake roasting our own beans as well to begin with? Obviously we want to have a good quality product to begin with (I know we’ll get better quickly).
Any thoughts on whether we should stick with just learning the ropes before we tackle the coffee roasting as well?
Thanks for your feedback!
Hi Everyone,
I’m in the process of opening a specialty coffee shop, my original intention was to open a drive-through operation, but after 7 months of dealing with limitations due to codes, reluctance with potential land owners and other hassles, have decided instead to go the traditional café route.
Now, my question is related to this forum thread – My wife and I love coffee and espresso (hence our desire to open a café) however neither of us are experts. We really want to focus on quality, and quality means serving great drinks (read barista expertise) and having great beans.
We’re waffling between attending a week long barista course or hiring a consultant to train us on site, so we’ve got a learning curve to begin with just learning to prepare decent drinks at opening.
The next thing is arranging to have good (fresh!) beans. There is a local roaster in town, but I’m not real satisfied with the flavor of their beans. So, I’m considering roasting our own – but I have NO experience with roasting, beyond the little bit of reading I’ve done on the subject.
My question to you all is, with everything else we’re dealing with a new operation, would it be a mistake to try to undertake roasting our own beans as well to begin with? Obviously we want to have a good quality product to begin with (I know we’ll get better quickly).
Any thoughts on whether we should stick with just learning the ropes before we tackle the coffee roasting as well?
Thanks for your feedback!
ourcoffeebarn
New member
GeorgeW, you will have your hands full building your shop! I would suggest finding a roaster that is in the business, take care of the roasting. There are a few of roasters who offer free shipping and keep the prices at a reasonable $ for FRESH ROASTED coffee beans.
Use the internet to do some searches and you will find a lot of roasters that ship within 24 hours of roasting!
Use the internet to do some searches and you will find a lot of roasters that ship within 24 hours of roasting!
