Francis Francis X1 cutting off my electricity

[illyfan]

I am looking for any advice regarding my Francis Francis X1 machine, I have been using it for nearly 7 years without any major issues but when I switched it on for my morning coffee the other day it cut off all the power in my house. It took some time to realise the coffee machine was the offender for the power cut after ruling out a local area power cut/any other electricals that could have been causing the outage. The machine had managed to get all the way to when the the green indicator light shows & the machine beeps to indicate it is ready, just after this is when the outage occured. I tried it in different sockets but with no joy, still cutting the power.
After a lot of internet research I have found that it is certainly not the greatest machine ever built & the numerous faults that I have read about are certainly an eye opener but I am loathed to give up on my precious X1.
It is looking like the most likely culprit is the heating element but rather than pay a hefty amount to get it repaired/serviced I have removed the casing to see what would need to be done to change the heating element & see if I could spot anything untoward with the components (I didn't).
So my question is this, does anyone see anything dodgy with the internal parts or have an idea of how to dismantle the boiler as really I don't know what I am looking at but am one of those people that if something breaks I try my best to fix it, sometimes goes well/sometimes goes disastrously, have found it is always best to ask others in the know before I go at it like a bull in a china shop just to minimize the 'botch it up' ratio.
Also, in a worst case scenario that it can't be fixed has anyone ever attempted using alternative brand parts in the shell.
I have attached some pics of my machine (front/back/sides/close ups), any response would be greatly appreciated

 

[CCafe]

The pictures are nice but won't actually help in this case. You may be right about your heating element however. I'm wondering if it exploded in the tank and has gone to ground. The real question here is now that it pops the circuit, does it blow it instantly the moment it's plugged in or does it need to heat up first and right as it gets to the point of being ready it then blows the circuit?

If the unit is almost ready to brew then blows the circuit I would suspect there is something else wrong. Its just hard to say without having it in front of me and not being able to back probe it with a multimeter and or test for amp draw.

The X1 is rated at 1100 watts @ 120V so its total amp draw should be no more than 9.2 amps. If you test for amp draw and your pulling 9.2 amps then I would say your heating element is fine and I would see if something else has gone to ground on the board or possibly a shorted wire. The problem again without a multimeter and some back probing its kinda hard to tell you what to look for.

If you can get a multimeter with an amp clamp test the amp draw first. Make sure you put only 1 wire in the clamp. Putting 2 or more wires in the clamp will give you 0 amps on the meter. If you are unsure about which wire is what to use. The green/yellow wire is ground (G), the blue wire is neutral (N), and the brown wire is the phase wire/hot wire (L1). So clamp the brown wire. You're looking for around 9 amps.

On the electrical outlet that you plug your X1 into put the red and black leads of the meter into the socket. You should get 120 volts from the L1 to N. Now drop one of the leads down to the ground socket of the plug. If you get 120V then you're testing from L1 to G. If you get 0V your testing from N to G. Now that you know what your voltage is plug the X1 in and test the voltage from the blue wire to the any metal surface on the X1 you should have 0 volts. If you have voltage then you have a serious problem and it is time to go looking for frayed wires.

Give that a try first and report back your findings. If you don't like playing with electricity get a qualified technician like myself and pay the piper to get it fixed safely without the risk of life and limb!

 

[francisfrancis]

Hi there,

First off, sorry for bumping an old thread. But I am interested in hearing if you resolved this issue?

I am having a similar issue, but mine was probably caused by my own clumsiness. I've had my machine for a couple months and decided to take it apart completely to descale the boiler manually (it was due..). After descaling and re-assembling successfully I turned the machine on. This is where I think I did a critical mistake: I forgot that there was no water in the boiler so it was heating up dry. After about 30 seconds the electricity in was cut and I immediately understood what had happened. Now, electricity cuts once I plug in the machine, even when the machine turned off.

Note: If I remove the cables to the heater I can turn the machine on and run water through the system, like you can see in the video below. Once I reconnect the cables and plug it in it will cut the electricity.

So the question is, what do I do?

Thanks for any response to this!

Video show the problem:

 

[CCafe]

Id venture to say you have a blown heating element. The wire inside has grounded to the tank and that is causing you to trip your breaker.

The heating element inside your tank will literally explode in 10 to 30 seconds with no water on it. The heat that it is generating isn't being removed by the water so the element will then boil the the contents inside the element that surrounds the wire. At some point within about 30 seconds that material will raise the internal pressure higher than the copper jacketing can withstand and it explodes.

 

[francisfrancis]

Id venture to say you have a blown heating element. The wire inside has grounded to the tank and that is causing you to trip your breaker.

The heating element inside your tank will literally explode in 10 to 30 seconds with no water on it. The heat that it is generating isn't being removed by the water so the element will then boil the the contents inside the element that surrounds the wire. At some point within about 30 seconds that material will raise the internal pressure higher than the copper jacketing can withstand and it explodes.

Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it! Yes, it certainly seems to be something off with the heating element.

I've done some more testing, more info and pics:

- When I let the machine cool down for a while (either by letting it rest or by running cold water through without heating element connected) I may turn it on (with heating element connected) and it will seemingly work as normal until it breaks electricity after ~20 seconds. At this point the gauge shows about 40-50 degrees Celsius so the heating element at least partially works. When it is then "warm" it will cut electricity more promptly (like in the video above).

So it seems like it doesn't actually cut the electricity even when the heater is connected IF it is cold. Once the heating element has warmed up some, it cuts. What is the takeaway from this? Still broken heating element?

I've opened the boiler once again and there is no visible damage to the heating element (while I realize that this damage may only be internal?).

Pictures of heating element:

 

[CCafe]

Grab a multimeter and ohm out your element. If the espresso machine is 1500 watts it should be around 10 ohms. That's the first place to start. If we can verify the element is good then the problem is elsewhere. From what your explaining it almost sounds like you have some electronic issues like the board has an issue. Blowing the breaker at this point would almost point to a dead short.

My feeling is the machine is coming up to or has achieved operating pressure and at that point X1 control board calls for an operation to be carried out and at that point it blows the circuit.

 

[francisfrancis]

Grab a multimeter and ohm out your element. If the espresso machine is 1500 watts it should be around 10 ohms. That's the first place to start. If we can verify the element is good then the problem is elsewhere.

I think the machine is at a total of 1100W while the heating element itself is 1000W. How many ohms should I be seeing in that case? This is really not my expertise. Regardless, it seems like the multimeter is showing 52 ohms (see pictures).

From what your explaining it almost sounds like you have some electronic issues like the board has an issue. Blowing the breaker at this point would almost point to a dead short.

My feeling is the machine is coming up to or has achieved operating pressure and at that point X1 control board calls for an operation to be carried out and at that point it blows the circuit.

I've been considering this option. Note that I'm fairly certain the machine does not reach operating pressure/temperature. It cuts at mere 40 degrees Celsius and I can't remember the thermostat to ever be toggling the heating on/off at such low temps. Even more importantly: I've tried running the machine without the temperature sensor(not the gauge) connected to the boiler, and the exact same thing happens. This leads me back to the heating element since it seems that the electricity is cut caused by actual physical temperature increase.

Can it be that there is an internal puncture in the heating element that only causes a shortage once it is heated up (hot stuff expanding etc..)? This rhymes with the fact that the machine can be turned back on, even when warm, if I disconnect the heating element.

 

[francisfrancis]

electricity cuts once I plug in the machine, even when the machine turned off.

This is still baffling me though. If the boiler is warm, it will cut electricity once it is plugged in even if everything is turned off. Again, if I disconnect heating element it will not.

 

[CCafe]

Is your X1 a 120 or 220V machine? If its 120 then your element is fried. However if it's 220V then your element is around 1000 watts and would be fine.

 

[francisfrancis]

Is your X1 a 120 or 220V machine? If its 120 then your element is fried. However if it's 220V then your element is around 1000 watts and would be fine.

It is a 220V machine. Does that mean that I can exclude the heating element entirely from being the cause?

 

[CCafe]

Your element is good but now you're going to have to go down the road of a process of elimination. So you'll pull out things like your pump, valves so on and such. It is time consuming and can be dangerous. It is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing and if you disable the wrong thing you can turn that X1 into a small bomb without ever realizing it. I would suggest a lot of caution before you go any further.

 

[retrocoffee]

I have an X5 that has similar internals that had a very similar issue. it would trip the GFCI breaker once it heated up to temp. sometimes a little before, sometimes after. reviving this old thread bc I ran across it trying looking for clues about how to fix my machine. posting in case someone else comes looking.

I replaced the heating element and that appears to have fixed it for me. on visual inspection and testing with an ohmmeter, nothing seems amiss with the old heating element. there must be just enough of a physical change when it heats that a crack opens up or something.

before replacing it, I was measuring the right voltages on lines going to boiler and pump when they were on and I could see no water leaks that might be causing a short. (be careful, especially at 220V.) the cutoff as it heated up was a pretty strong indicator that it was the heating element.