Cimbali Rip Off or Deal?

[FaustoCoffee]

Hello all! Glad I found this site.

I have and issue I need some outside guidance on. My wife and I bought a Coffee shop a while back in western NC. So far its been hard work but its going prety good. We use Cimbali machines and I have no desire to drop Cimbali. I have one older version of the M31 Bistro it works great, and I have a M3 superbar 1 that is a royal pain in my butt. It works great when its not broken. Only problem is it breaks alot even with regualr maintaince and is super expensive to work on.
My rep who is two hours away has offered to trade me both Machines for one used but in Mint condition standard M39 Doestron 3 group machine.
I wouldnt mind trading him the M2 Superbar but im anxious about giving up my bistro since its a reliable backup. I cant find solid pricing online to double check his numbers.
Do you think the trade is a good deal or am I getting taken advantage of? At first I thought no waaaay im not giving you my bistro but from what ive found the two for one might be a pretty even trade if the dosatron is in great shape. Thoughts?

 

[alsterling]

Fausto... I live in SoCal and know the owners of Pasquini Espresso Co., distributors of La Cimbali machines. They're far enough out of your market area that if you called and asked them about your machine's values, they might be willing to give you their opinion. Worst case, they might make you an offer? Anyone who offers machines in trade, must have access to parts and labor to make up for the condition of the machines. Obviously, they're in business to make a profit. But if this panes out to be a win-win, then you're in good shape. To know if it is a win-win, again, I'd go to a Cimbali dealer who repairs them, like Pasquini, and get a "second opinion." Just a thought....... Al

 

[CCafe]

Well that's a good question. I'm not a huge fan of the M3. I had 2 in my market and in the end I was able to convince the owner to trade up to a M2. Since the move they've had about 75% less service calls.

If u like your Bistro then I'm not going to say a M39 is right up your ally. Yeah its got a ton of bells and whistles but do u need them? Next question is he giving u a standard M39 or does he have a M39 GT Dosatron? Not a lot of difference except the GT can change group temperatures on the fly where the non-GT has to be preset.

If it was me I would see about trading in the M3 for a M2 if you like having a the super auto. The way I look at is having 2 espresso machines allows you to have some redundancy. If your guy is 2 hours away redundancy is your best friend. Nothing hurts worse then a loss of profit.

 

[alsterling]

It's like a shell game; a 2 group, a super-auto, and a 3 group.......

CC....... Regarding Fausto's choices... I'm interested in the fact that his equipment setup includes a small 2-group and a super-auto. That suggests to me a little bit about his shop and their clientel. And I say that respectfully, as he didn't talk about his customer coffee expectations, or the volume of their shop.

I've had espresso extractions from the entire line of La Cimbali Super-Autos, and felt it only reinforced my opinion of "automated espresso extractions." But this is business, and I have to stay humble, as I'm not in Fausto's shoes. I took another look at the M31, the M3 and the M39 dosatron online.

Regarding the managment of retail coffee, I've always felt it good business to back up the main machine, and in this case with that 2 group. Commercial food processing equipment, in general, requires constant supervision. This is even more true with an espresso machine. And in my opinion, the M3 is a good example of cramming a "ton of" electro-mechanical and hydraulic devices into a severly confined area. I'm honestly boggled as to how that machine could survive high volume in a shop where there's no in-house maintenance person. Given that, low volume creates other issues. Just from the laws of physics, I'm no believer that today's super-autos actually save time. They just reposition the "clean and prep" period. And machine maintenance adds to the total time invested in "other than brewing time." What one gains in production turnaround of the finished beverage, one loses in beverage quality. (just my opinion...)

Fausto, your original question was seeking advice on "dollar value" of all three machines; this so you could make a good decision. Just from a business position, the M3 is too costly to run, so it's a cost issue, and it's value to you is low. I'd want to keep the M31, sell the M3 Superbar, and if you're happy with your local service person, get that M39, or an equivalent. (I understand your location limits available local machines) At least then you'd have a 3 group main machine, backed up by a small 2 group. Trading in both for the M39 may be a good option, but if you believe in "backups", then you still need a another small machine.

Fausto... if you're still working on this dilema, I can also recommend you call the owner of Mr. P's Espresso in Huntington Beach, CA. He was nearly 15 years a technician on Cimbali machines, and now owns his own shop. If anyone could give you some ideas, he might. Mr Ps Espresso Italiano Caffe

 

[Randy G.]

In a commercial environment the machine has to match the need. Do you need a three group? That is a lot of activity in a small area. I would suggest, since you are happy with the two group and it is dependable, keep it. Do you use the super-auto? As mentioned above, if it is filling a need, that is fine. Honestly, if I went in for a coffee and saw it was being made on a super-auto, I would walk out, but I am the minority in regards to coffee drinkers. Regardless, if it is not dependable it has no place in a commercial environment. How many times has it broken down when there were customers there? That can't be a good thing.

Keep what works, get rid of what doesn't.

 

[FaustoCoffee]

Thanks yall. Lots of good advice. To answer a few questions, I dont have a very high volume. The M3 is nice in the morning and afternoon rush but other than that I dont feel its worth it. Plus I dont feel that the shot and overall experience is that great from a super auto. The M3 was the brain child of the previous owner and I feel that it was overkill especially for the small town my shop is located in. After speaking to my wife who runs the shop day to day(I have another job so I take on special projects like this). She feels that the M31 is starting to age and will eventually need to be replaced so were going with the M39 trade for both machines.

Thanks for the help and responses.

 

[alsterling]

Fausto.... thanks for the update. My wishes for many great extractions on your newly acquired machine! Best, Al