caffe biscotto
Member
I thought for sure he had a beard...
Super Automatic or Manual for a 250 shot bar
- Thread starter Sparky
- Start date
CCafe
Active member
Annoying maybe, but I'm tired of people posting opinions on here made to look like facts. The people who come here asking for assistance we'll listen to just about anyone and if your spewing crap you can't backup then it makes us all look bad.
For the most part I can't stand it when someone knocks something up one side and down the other and has limited to no knowledge of what they are knocking. I'm not saying a super auto should be a replacement for your average barista. But I'm not going to sit here and tell someone that they don't produce quality espresso. Because if that was the case most Italian companies wouldn't bother producing a machine that makes substandard anything.
Most of the Italians I know that do produce Super automatic equipment hold their machines in the same regard as the traditional equipment they produce. Even more so for the super since it does take a lot out of the hands of the barista. They want to make sure that their machine only produces the finest quality drinks possible!
So if you have a problem take it up with the people who invented your drink you so covet.
For the most part I can't stand it when someone knocks something up one side and down the other and has limited to no knowledge of what they are knocking. I'm not saying a super auto should be a replacement for your average barista. But I'm not going to sit here and tell someone that they don't produce quality espresso. Because if that was the case most Italian companies wouldn't bother producing a machine that makes substandard anything.
Most of the Italians I know that do produce Super automatic equipment hold their machines in the same regard as the traditional equipment they produce. Even more so for the super since it does take a lot out of the hands of the barista. They want to make sure that their machine only produces the finest quality drinks possible!
So if you have a problem take it up with the people who invented your drink you so covet.
Davec
New member
CCafe said:
First, your a moderator on here, so you should learn to live with that....it's simply your opinion vs another persons. That doesn't mean they are "spewing crap". In fact that's a rather odd point of view to hold? :?
You state your belief another person states theirs...your stated views might make some people reluctant to post their ideas and thoughts, especially if they think they will upset the administrators of this forum..I will now be far less likely to contribute to this forum in the future (so that should make you happy).
Second, your making unfounded assumptions about my knowledge and I don't feel the need to prove anything to you. The poster can read the posts and make up their own mind. If he chooses your option as the best solution, then great he has been helped....although I note you have not recommended a specific class or cost of superauto to him and not suggested a few models you feel capable of meeting his requirements (read his post very carefully and think about what he is asking and why)!
Some of your posts in the past have had questionable information, but I have never felt the need to respond as you do and certainly have never accused you of talking crap, or similar unpleasant comments. Now if you have a personal problem with me specifically, then ban me if that will make you feel better, but don't sit their looking for opportunities to attack me personally.
The only one making us all look bad....is you!
CCafe
Active member
You can feel the way you want to feel. Just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I can't get upset once in while.
Since you don't feel like proving anything I'll just make my own assumption about what ever you write on the forum from here on out.
If this means its time for me to step down as a moderator then so be it.
Since you don't feel like proving anything I'll just make my own assumption about what ever you write on the forum from here on out.
If this means its time for me to step down as a moderator then so be it.
Crazy4Coffee
New member
Davec,
CCafe has asked you a simple question:
Just answer his question.
CCafe has asked you a simple question:
CCafe said:
Just answer his question.
caffe biscotto
Member
I’m looking for a small home roaster online. A big part of my research is reading customer reviews of the various machines available. It can be a bit confusing at times…
Some say this machine smokes too much. Others say it’s nice because the smoke is minimal.
Opinions on another machine range from “It gets too hot!” to “Just use heat resistant gloves when handling it”.
Oh yeah, I read one post where someone said “This machine died on me after a year!” This was followed by another poster who wrote “I’ve been using the same machine for years and have had little to no trouble with it”.
Point is, I’m receiving a full range of users’ experiences with a particular home roaster and the more I read, the less surprised I will be if or when I run into any trouble with the machine. Even professionals will disagree on trivial to vital points, but it’s good to be in a forum where you can see both sides of a coin, so to speak.
This thread gets five stars from me, at least it did before it started to get ugly…
Some say this machine smokes too much. Others say it’s nice because the smoke is minimal.
Opinions on another machine range from “It gets too hot!” to “Just use heat resistant gloves when handling it”.
Oh yeah, I read one post where someone said “This machine died on me after a year!” This was followed by another poster who wrote “I’ve been using the same machine for years and have had little to no trouble with it”.
Point is, I’m receiving a full range of users’ experiences with a particular home roaster and the more I read, the less surprised I will be if or when I run into any trouble with the machine. Even professionals will disagree on trivial to vital points, but it’s good to be in a forum where you can see both sides of a coin, so to speak.
This thread gets five stars from me, at least it did before it started to get ugly…
ElPugDiablo
New member
But we post here to exchange opinions, ideas and information. When anyone post something and his statement is being challenged by another poster, rather than saying I take back everything I said, and post totally off topic mockery, why not just respond to the opposing point of view with well researched facts?caffe biscotto said:
CCafe
Active member
Thats what I was trying to get. There have been so many people in the past that just post misconceived ideas and not the facts of what they have experienced or have not.
Its been my experience when someone is completely negative to an idea such as Davec posted that they are merely supporting an opinion not based on working experience. That's why I challenged him to back up his claim.
To answer Davec I did post the machine I prefer. La Cimbali M2 Super Turbo. I just didn't list the price. List price for a 5K model $16,100.00
Its been my experience when someone is completely negative to an idea such as Davec posted that they are merely supporting an opinion not based on working experience. That's why I challenged him to back up his claim.
To answer Davec I did post the machine I prefer. La Cimbali M2 Super Turbo. I just didn't list the price. List price for a 5K model $16,100.00
caffe biscotto
Member
Thing is, we know Davec's credentials as an espresso machine tech guy. That's what he does, he's an expert in his field.
Since Sparky and other newer members aren't aware of this, maybe Davec should elaborate more on his opposing view. But by confronting him in a pissy manner, we get what we get from him.
The other thing we know about Davec is he doesn't take things as seriously as others may. I myself am guilty of that in this forum. If it were a life or death situation, I'm sure I'd walk a straighter line, but it's not, so I won't.
Regarding backing up your opinion, some forums are bombarded with "citatation needed" after almost every post! That can get pretty annoying, believe me, though I've always been up to the challenge....
<--- There, at least there's one smiley in this thread...
Since Sparky and other newer members aren't aware of this, maybe Davec should elaborate more on his opposing view. But by confronting him in a pissy manner, we get what we get from him.
The other thing we know about Davec is he doesn't take things as seriously as others may. I myself am guilty of that in this forum. If it were a life or death situation, I'm sure I'd walk a straighter line, but it's not, so I won't.
Regarding backing up your opinion, some forums are bombarded with "citatation needed" after almost every post! That can get pretty annoying, believe me, though I've always been up to the challenge....
<--- There, at least there's one smiley in this thread...caffe biscotto
Member
Well, at least the first big teeth chocolate puff coffee bean thingy.
ElPugDiablo
New member
For nonsensical bantering, we have the alien abduction thread. I am sure ccafe is perfectly happy to trade silliness with anyone over there. But we are in this thread because we take coffee seriously and helping others make an informed decision on getting the right espresso machine is a serious topic. I am not saying therefore davec needs to footnote Ernesto Illy's Espresso Coffee for his initial post. However, when questioned, even if the challenge is with hostility, he should be perfectly willing use his experience and knowledge to defend his position because that helps the initial poster. I would think the purpose of davec's posting in this particular thread is to be helpful, not to be a disruptive comedian, but he left as one.caffe biscotto said:Thing is, we know Davec's credentials as an espresso machine tech guy. That's what he does, he's an expert in his field.
Since Sparky and other newer members aren't aware of this, maybe Davec should elaborate more on his opposing view. But by confronting him in a pissy manner, we get what we get from him.
The other thing we know about Davec is he doesn't take things as seriously as others may. I myself am guilty of that in this forum. If it were a life or death situation, I'm sure I'd walk a straighter line, but it's not, so I won't.
Regarding backing up your opinion, some forums are bombarded with "citatation needed" after almost every post! That can get pretty annoying, believe me, though I've always been up to the challenge....
caffe biscotto
Member
EPD, contrary to how you represent yourself in every post you make by displaying the most comical avatar in the forum, I can still, without hesitation, vouch for your expert opinion & advice in the coffee industry.
On occasion, I’ve pointed new members in your direction, due to the fact that I’m aware of your professionalism and can always count on you for an excellent answer to a wide variety of questions in this forum.
So, although you may throw in a free wife joke here & there or contribute a bit of ongoing humor to a boogeyman thread or two, we know that ElPugDiablo is the man to go to, or should I say WonderPug to the rescue?
You see, a bit of humor does no harm to your reputation, nor does it make you less likely to be called upon for trusted advice.
BTW –
By that, essentially you’re advising Sparky against a superauto. I think you might want to elaborate on that a bit more, instead of pointing out that this is a serious discussion about an espresso machine purchase and that there’s no room for humor. After all, this is Sparky’s thread, not Davec’s. Let it go man....
Thank you,
Ed
On occasion, I’ve pointed new members in your direction, due to the fact that I’m aware of your professionalism and can always count on you for an excellent answer to a wide variety of questions in this forum.
So, although you may throw in a free wife joke here & there or contribute a bit of ongoing humor to a boogeyman thread or two, we know that ElPugDiablo is the man to go to, or should I say WonderPug to the rescue?
You see, a bit of humor does no harm to your reputation, nor does it make you less likely to be called upon for trusted advice.
BTW –
ElPugDiablo said:
By that, essentially you’re advising Sparky against a superauto. I think you might want to elaborate on that a bit more, instead of pointing out that this is a serious discussion about an espresso machine purchase and that there’s no room for humor. After all, this is Sparky’s thread, not Davec’s. Let it go man....
Thank you,
Ed
ElPugDiablo
New member
I will just discuss espresso machine simply because I don't want to go off topic.caffe biscotto said:
Am I suggesting a non superautomatic? Not at all. I have no idea his client's coffee and espresso ability, I have no idea what kind of drinks are on the menu, what kind of coffee his client plans to use, and I have no idea if the projected 250 drinks a day is done in a 3 hours mad rush or nice and even pace through 8 hours. I am suggesting Sparky does not have to suggest 2 manual machines to his client simply because 2 manual machines are a lot more expensive than 1 3 group machine. Having said that, in the ideal world where money is not a factor, I would go with 2 traditional automatic machines.
Now if the shop is in the US where 99.9% of the shops are poorly managed and the person behind the counter is not well trained and view the job of barista as a cool hamburger flipper, yeah I go with a superautomatic.
John P
Active member
If you own or manage an espresso establishment and are not the expert or do not have an expert to train them... why bother?
A properly trained barista with fresh, properly roasted espresso, a good burr grinder, and a semi-auto/auto trumps a superauto any day.
Point is, if you choose the machine based on the lack of barista skill... you're either hiring the wrong people, or you're in the wrong line of work.
If we were talking about the average shop, then beans, grinder, etc... really wouldn't matter because the outcome would be poor espresso, which sadly, you still get in nine out of ten places you go.
I would assume no one WANTS to be average. But unfortunately, many settle for it.
A properly trained barista with fresh, properly roasted espresso, a good burr grinder, and a semi-auto/auto trumps a superauto any day.
Point is, if you choose the machine based on the lack of barista skill... you're either hiring the wrong people, or you're in the wrong line of work.
If we were talking about the average shop, then beans, grinder, etc... really wouldn't matter because the outcome would be poor espresso, which sadly, you still get in nine out of ten places you go.
I would assume no one WANTS to be average. But unfortunately, many settle for it.
Mark at Whole Latte Love
New member
Certainly this is a topic that has been discussed many times on many forums. I think there is a machine that is right for every situation. I have every reason to believe a highly skilled barista on a traditional machine does have the ability to make an exceptional drink. I also believe as previously posted that an unskilled or uncaring person on a great traditional machine can make a drink that many of us would not consider acceptable. That being said some of the new super autos make very good drinks consistently. It is a matter of staffing and training. As the owner do you fell you have the ability to train, monitor and mentor your staff on a traditional machine to serve great drinks consistently If so that is the way to go. If you believe that is not feasible and you would prefer to have good consistent drinks then the super auto is the way to go.
A lot of what type of machine you choose can be based on what do you want the customer to think about your operation and what you want them to take away as they leave the store (every pun intended). If coffee is not your primary focus a super auto may indeed be the way to go. If coffee is your primary focus it will take some discussion with you partners as to the viability of your ability to keep the staff trained and motivated on a traditional machine.
Many chains use super autos and are thought of as true coffee houses. Many fans of great independent shops go there because the coffee house they go to has great coffee and very good baristas. I think you can still have great brewed coffee and good espresso drinks produced on a super auto. Sad fact but many shops I have visited have great equipment combined with bad baristas and I have gotten drinks that are unacceptable.
It comes down to do I want to push a button and get a good product or do I want my staff making each drink to order and constantly worrying about who is making the drink? There are no worries if your staff is knowledgeable and well trained.
A lot of what type of machine you choose can be based on what do you want the customer to think about your operation and what you want them to take away as they leave the store (every pun intended). If coffee is not your primary focus a super auto may indeed be the way to go. If coffee is your primary focus it will take some discussion with you partners as to the viability of your ability to keep the staff trained and motivated on a traditional machine.
Many chains use super autos and are thought of as true coffee houses. Many fans of great independent shops go there because the coffee house they go to has great coffee and very good baristas. I think you can still have great brewed coffee and good espresso drinks produced on a super auto. Sad fact but many shops I have visited have great equipment combined with bad baristas and I have gotten drinks that are unacceptable.
It comes down to do I want to push a button and get a good product or do I want my staff making each drink to order and constantly worrying about who is making the drink? There are no worries if your staff is knowledgeable and well trained.
Similar threads
- Deleted member 39056
- Buy, Sell and Trade
