My thoughts on Starbucks

[Dota Coffee]

can't give up

yes, DAVEC, but we have to try to educate the public so they understand that what they are getting is nothing but fluff.

If we don't do that, then the SB of the world will continue to thrive and the subtleties of the specialty coffees you mention will never be appreciated by more than a hard core bunch that roast their own.

 

[CCafe]

Starbucks will continue to thrive only because it is as much of a brand name as Folgers. 90% of the population could care less that there is something out there that taste better.

There grandma made Folgers, mama made Folgers, and all be darned if they don't make Folgers.

Even if you educate someone about good coffee, they will still buy Starbucks just because of the convenience factor. Why drive 4 miles for good coffee when you can go around the block for Starbucks!

 

[Dota Coffee]

Call me idealist

call me a dreamer but i think if you give people the options, they will prefer the better. i have been marketing our farm's production for almost 6 years now and have a few hundred converts, specially to our Light Roast, which Americans are hardly exposed to.

Upopn hearing what SB and other marketers do to coffee, people immediately understand why it tastes so bad and that what they get is not a good coffee experience.

Consumers are open to new things, we just have to get to them with the real story. it works.

 

[coffeenote]

Reply to Dota

Dota, living in Costa Rica and seeing the coffee farmer situation up close I can well understand your point of view about Starbucks, it is not a unique view by any means and it contains more than a little truth.

But I would say in my opinion that if we have problems with Starbucks behavior as a corporation, I think we are in big trouble because it is hard to go down the roster of major corporations at least here in the US and find one even half as responisble. Even you admit that their treatment of the trade is much superior to the large commercial roasters they are steadily supplanting. But also to throw in my 2 cents on some of your points:
- Quality and use of "fillers" -- I really do believe they buy what most would call "good" coffee...no robustas, no crappy Brazils, no coffees that would otherwise be tendered to NYBOT exchange. Maybe a matter of opinion, one man's filler is another man's...um...varietal (?) but most people I talk to agree that they buy good coffee (despite what happens to that coffee next...). Yes they really jack up the price on the black apron but that is a tiny amount and the farmer is surely happy to get the 1.80...is that coffee really worth $22/lb or is it the marketing? I think the latter so you have to cover the marketing cost, without the marketing there is no black apron. And the farmer can now do his own marketing too with the following year's crop...
- "They don't sell coffee" -- understand what you are saying but bottom line is of course they sell coffee. They also sell "coffee-based drinks" that contains lots of other stuff. This should not bother anybody, if customers want it they sell it. I would too.
- "Obscene profits" I am sorry but you cannot take the cost of the (infitesimal) amount of green bean required for one cup of coffee and divide that into what they get for a latte. Its mathematically and logically incorrect. What about those other ingredients and the cost of running the store? Health care benefits for all employees? The bottom line is, well, the bottom line and here's how Starbucks stacks up in profit margin in their latest fiscal year (net income divided by sales revenue...how much of each dollar in sales is profit, in other words) compared to some other companies:
McDonalds 25%
Pepsi 16%
Procter & Gamble 15%
Tim Horton's 14%
Coca Cola 9%
Starbucks 7%
Kraft 7%
Sara Lee 3%

Unless you believe that they are poor and wasteful, overpaid managers, there really is nothing obscene about it. Check the pharmaceutical companies, now that's obscene!!

- Social Responsibility -- I think they do quite a lot, certainly a lot more than many of the large commercial roasters. Now let's face it, the financial structure of the company allows them to do it -- if green coffee is such a small percentage of your sales, well you can afford to pay 10 cents more per lb, while if you are a traditional roaster selling to supermarkets or offices/hotels/restaurants, that same 10 cents will kill you in the marketplace. But I do think they are concerned about sustainability, where will they get quality coffee in the amounts they need to support their growth, and need for their suppliers to prosper.

No I am not an employee or a supplier or anything to Starbucks, I just believe that for a big company, well, there's lots of worse ones out there.

 

[Dota Coffee]

bottom line it pisses me off

Coffe note, hi! thank you for giving me your feedback, it is really interesting.

I guess bottom line is that is easy to see how much SB bothers me.

Some of what you mentioned made sense, and certainly the numbers paint a funny picture, if not unbelievable. But then, numbers are numbers and accountants can be very creative. You have lots of examples of that in corporations.

What bothers me inmensely is that SB really does not do as much as they could, WHILE they brag about doing even more. You are right when you mention the big roasting operations but at least they don't hype themselves as SB does; they simply go about their business in a quite way.

If you listen to the VP of Corporate Responsibility for SB (just the title is a bit much), you would think they just found the cure for AIDS and taught every person in the world to read.

You are right when you say this is a topic that is close to me. My family sold coffee berries for peanuts for decades to cooperatives that thought they are making a killing by selling to SB. So, it is different when you hear people brag about changing the lives of coffee farmers in Costa Rica if you know the economics of the industry and those families first hand.

 

[essentialwonders]

The company in question is not a competitive company in N.E. Ohio to mom and pop roasters or OCS operators. As long as you roast quality gourmet or specialty coffee you will have them beat hands down every time. Although they do have the most important asset needed to gain control over the market which is money, he with the most usually wins eventually. But, there will always be that coffee connoisseur who will always demand great tasting specialty coffee and that’s why the little guy will still be here ton control a small portion of the market and when the giant falls maybe more.

New to the forum....
Marie

 

[haytoniaho]

hi everybody! i just wanted to add to the conversation, adding on to the points Ccafe, DML and others have made by sharing my experience, working at starbucks:

I feel like I've sold out working there:

They have destroyed the art and process that goes into preparing and serving coffee; everything has been dumbed-down so that a person who doesnt know anything about coffee or even worse hates coffee, can not only work there but even be promoted to managerial positions. The art of espresso---diminished to the mere pressing of a button (and the result is bitter lacks no crema cups are never pre-heated, it just sucks). The ratios that should be used for a traditional cappuccino machiatos latte etc are ignored--transformed to insure fast delivery rather than good quality and coffee/milk harmony.

And the customers thus NEVER order a normal cup of coffee, shot of espresso, cappuccino, latte--nope, they only order powder, sugar and syrup based frappuccinos.... :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[jdandtracy]

Re: bottom line it pisses me off

What bothers me inmensely is that SB really does not do as much as they could, WHILE they brag about doing even more. You are right when you mention the big roasting operations but at least they don't hype themselves as SB does; they simply go about their business in a quite way.

My wife was a Community Development Lead for Starbucks in Colorado. She was very passionate about community involvement, charity events, etc. She developed incredible relationships with different organizations, recruited help from other Starbucks managers and employees, and made a huge impact in this region. There wasn't a charity event going on anywhere that didn't have Starbucks present. Fast forward two years and Tracy got a new District Manager who didn't care, and most of the managers in town (15 stores) were new, and did not care. She continued with her relationships she had painstakingly built in the community. But when 75% of the Starbucks managers and staff would not show up for a charity event that they had agreed to support, the whole thing would be a disaster. My wife hung in there for some time, but finally got frustated by the lack of committment and caring of her peers, and her supervisors (not just in regard to charity events, but everything with how Starbucks operated in this district). She eventually got into trouble by holding other managers and vendors accountable for their poor performance and failure to follow through, which was a result of an incredibly poor quality District Manager. She finally resigned in February 2006, after working for SB for 11 years.

We opened our shop 3 months ago, and we are having a blast. We provide a high quality product, an intimate coffee house experience, and we support local artists, and children's charities and organizations. Tracy is happy to be in the coffee industry again, but her dissatisfaction with SB was because of poor quality staff in the District and Regional positions, who hired poor managers to be her peers. SB is a great company, especially if you are familiar with thier mission statement and operations policies. The problem is, SB has gotten so big that those great policies are no longer put into action consistently. If the SB where you live has great employees and a passionate Community Dev Lead, then it is pretty much a no-brainer that Starbucks has a positve perception in the community. If you live in an area where SB managers are mostly ex- Taco Bell Assistant Manager... well... you get a much less involved company in community events.

Don't fault SB for poor social responsibility. They have great intentions as a company, and it is promulgated in their policies. Quality of staff in a given district is what drives, or destroys public perception.

JD

 

[Dota Coffee]

SB is still at fault

JD, hi! Even though i was refering to Starbucks' community service IN MY COUNTRY COsta Rica, (in the areas where they buy the coffee), i think that what you point out is pretty sad.

SB has gotten big and they either CAN NOT or DONT WANT TO BOTHER hiring employees that are as committed as your wife. So, if they don't have the human element to make their principles a reality, then they probably stopped caring or some bean counter told them it was expensive.

I am glad you and your wife are in business. i hope you two are very successful and please, don't forget about the people who plant the coffee. They are int he short end of the stick.

 

[LindasOasis]

I love me some Starbucks!

Yes, I love the deep, bite me flavor of My Starbucks, being sure to request the deepest, darkest roast. But, since I learned I burned out my adrenals & how it would take 17 glasses of water to replenish balance to my system with each cup, (it''s very acidic), I totally curbed my caffeine \"pleasure\". Because my adrenals are burnt out, (I trust they will restore with some TLC.), I wasn''t even getting a coffee buzz unless I absolutely had too much. Then, I almost felt \"sick\" rather than refreshed or energized. No, I was in love with the \"taste\",for me, the \"decadence\" of it!

 

[jdandtracy]

Re: SB is still at fault

JD, hi! Even though i was refering to Starbucks' community service IN MY COUNTRY COsta Rica, (in the areas where they buy the coffee), i think that what you point out is pretty sad.

SB has gotten big and they either CAN NOT or DONT WANT TO BOTHER hiring employees that are as committed as your wife. So, if they don't have the human element to make their principles a reality, then they probably stopped caring or some bean counter told them it was expensive.

I am glad you and your wife are in business. i hope you two are very successful and please, don't forget about the people who plant the coffee. They are int he short end of the stick.

Thanks for your encouragement! As it goes with anything in life, the quality of the people involved is what makes it successful or ruins it. When a company gets as large as Starbucks, there will be a degradation of the quality of employees, just due to the numbers involved. I wish you well, and the coffee farmers also...
JD

 

[3ternal]

Sounds like we've got alot of Starbucks hate going around lol. I work for Sbux corp currently, and their mission statement is actually really centered around coffee. Especially lately, there's been a huge move to recenter stores around education, and make a better beverage.

I've personally gone through TONS of coffee through different brands, and Starbucks beans are still up there in my book. I actually like the strong smoky flavor though, so maybe it's just my preference. I've done cupping/tastings of all their coffee and there are a couple really good ones. Ethiopia Sidamo is always nice, and with Latin coffee's Guatemala is alright. My personal fav is Italian roast right now, but once again I just like the strong taste.

Edit: Oh I forgot, their rift valley blend from last season was awesome. Pepper notes tasted surprisingly good!

 

[rholbrook1]

I am not that much of a fan of starbucks. The burnt beans is not the taste I am looking for with my coffee. Maybe I just dont like waiting for those infront of my in line getting their double white mocha chocolate latte with extra shot and skim milk when I am just trying to get a coffee, but there are much better coffees out. I enjoy Seattle''s best the most. (They tend to have smaller lines where I live)

 

[3ternal]

I am not that much of a fan of starbucks. The burnt beans is not the taste I am looking for with my coffee. Maybe I just dont like waiting for those infront of my in line getting their double white mocha chocolate latte with extra shot and skim milk when I am just trying to get a coffee, but there are much better coffees out. I enjoy Seattle''s best the most. (They tend to have smaller lines where I live)

Fyi, Seattle's Best is a Starbucks brand...

And you'd get the complicated drinks in any successful coffee house, just please don't say "chocolate mocha", lol your pretty much just saying "chocolate chocolate".

 

[davidsbiscotti]

I just finished off a triple tall two pump mocha from SB and I didn't detect any unpleasant "burnt taste" in the drink.
In fact, next time I'll order with only one pump mocha.

I'm experiencing a sugar buzz more than anything right now. Woohoooo!!!

P.S. - Props to 3ternal, from davidsbiscotti.