My fresh coffee tastes bad

[timmy78]

Hi, i am a lost coffee lover trying to learn how to make proper coffee at home.

The more effort i put into this the worse the coffee.:???:

Kalita wave 185 glass. 25gram coffee, 400 gram water. 3:30 brewtime using this procedure:

1. flush filter with water straight off water kettle to rinse and preheat
2. add coffee to filter
3. 30 sec bloom with 60gr water
4. 140gr water in circles. im usually done at 1:00
5. 1:30 100 gram water
6. 2.30 100 gram water
7. 3:30 done

Result is very strong bitter undrinkable coffee. Dilluting with water does not help. I manage to keep a nice pool of water producing a nice flat "cake" in the filter. i adjust my pour rate after grind size. i try to never let the water go below coffee surface before end of brew.

if i swap beans to a rwanda dark roasted stale premium supermarket coffe, grind setting 35, the result is really strong but smooth drinkable stale coffe if i add some hot water(by stale i mean lacking all the floral and exciting tastes).

i have now gone trough 900 grams of premium coffee on my brand new rancilio rocky to conclude that the bodum barista burr grinder was not to blame. i have tried 20-50 on my calibrated rocky.

i can make good coffee with my french press + bodum barrista burr grinder. My french press from 1999 died and instead of replacing it with a new one i spent tons of money to achieve even better healthier coffee and now i can only brew stale dark roasted coffee..in the process i ruined alot of really good coffee.. shame on me.


Can anyone please help with a direction. i have basically tried sticking with same amount of coffee, same procedure, same amount of water just increasing grind size.. i have gone trough 4 bean types. one of the bags i opened in the shop and asked if she would be so kind and brew me a cup on the v60 i saw they had (explaining my problem) it was a pleasent cup.

 

[peterjschmidt]

I could probably help, but don't know how much 100g of water is in volume. I just use volume - it's easier for me - so I don't have any idea what your coffee:water ratios are.

 

[timmy78]

i always assumed 100 gr = 1 decilitre but its not. on my scale 1 decilitre weighs 98,94 grams.. but it should be close to 1:16

thank god its just not me.. all these coffee drippers i have spoken to keep speaking in grams where i live in regards to both water and coffee. when i ask in deciliter they look at me like im stupid. i just like good coffee.

 

[Kudzu]

I could probably help, but don't know how much 100g of water is in volume. I just use volume - it's easier for me - so I don't have any idea what your coffee:water ratios are.

"...25gram coffee, 400 gram water..."

At 1:16, I do not think his coffee:water ratio is the problem.

I am interested to see this unraveled.

 

[timmy78]

I have purchased more coffe today to venture down the path of foul tasting coffee. Tried a small local roaster since i am in the area working today. Im very tempted to buy another french press but its kinda embarassing not to be able to make some good pour over.

Some Kenya, Kiriani, Teresia, Muranga Type: SL28 Harvest: December 2014 Process: Washed Roasted 28th of January.

And some Etiopia Kochere Natural, Gedeo, YirgacheffeType: Mixed heirloom Harvest: Januar 2015 Process: Natural also Roasted 28th of January.


I also bought a bag of columbian coffee that i have not got the details for since the bag is in the car.


Maybe i need to get a thermometer to check my brew temp..

 

[andy.easthope]

Hey Timmy,

A few thoughts for you. Your brew method looks good, I don't think it would be the cause of your issues. A few things spring to mind though. As you wrote below, brew temp could be an issue for you. How are you controlling that at the moment? You didn't mention your brew water quality, which is the other thing I'm curious about.

Another thought was the comparison between what you tried in the shop vs what you're getting at home. I would expect that a cafe brewing up their own coffee in shop would have a pretty sweet grinder setup - typically shop grinders come with a great grind quality and particulate range in comparison with domestic grinders such as your bodum. So, I wouldn't rule out the bodum grinder just yet, before testing it further. Your rocky is going to produce a whole bunch of fine particles, even at coarser settings that would look suitable for filter, so if it produces similar results to bodum which are equally not good, I would not be surprised there either.

Failing all that, if your issues are due to extraction issues, use the same brew ration but drop your dose + beverage weight down. For eg. 15gr -> 250gr with the same grind setting as before would drop your extraction yield down by a fair bit.

Food for thought

Andy

 

[Kudzu]

Failing all that, if your issues are due to extraction issues, use the same brew ration but drop your dose + beverage weight down. For eg. 15gr -> 250gr with the same grind setting as before would drop your extraction yield down by a fair bit.

Andy, I do not doubt what you are saying, but help me understand. It seems to me decreasing the amount of water and ground coffee, while maintaining the same ratio, would do only exactly what you say, drop the yield, i.e. make less of the same coffee. What am I missing? I am gonna feel so dumb...

 

[timmy78]

Thank you for the pointers Andy. its good to know the brew concept im using sounds correct.

I have made 3 acceptable cups in a row today, as opposed to the rat poison i made this weekend. I changed 3 parameters today and i havent had the time to backtrack what makes the difference.

1. The coffee i am using comes from another roaster ( i did use coffee from 2 different roasters this weekend)
2. I was looking for something to measure brew temp but i ended up buying the v60 pouring kettle 1,2 liter. easier to pour consistent with.
3. The extra pouring to the "v60 kettle" will most likely lower temperature.

To me the most logical solution is bad coffee but one of the roasters i used this weekend are considered genius by the locals and the other is considered overrated and too expensive but still good. I made some really good coffee from both of them in the past using french press. I have bought more of the same batch i used this weekend but i havent even opened the bag yet. i will open the bag tomorrow and report back in a few days.

4. Can it be that i´ve used too fresh coffee ? i havent had that luxury in the past. week old coffee has been my source for the last decade.


The coffee i have great luck with today is some Columbian washed Castillo from Hernando Gomez, Planadas, Tolima.
I must go to sleep. I cant wait to brew my morning cup tomorrow to try and fine adjust this Castillo.

Drinking bad coffee at home since 11th January makes a grumpy man.

 

[timmy78]

In regards to water quality i have a low TDS value with a PH @ 7,2 (i will look up my tds on my datalogger)

My KH values are at 2 and my GH is at 5. My calsium:magnesium ratio is perfect according to modern science but not good according to mother nature.

 

[peterjschmidt]

If the same coffee was good with your press pot, then the only variable is the Kalita. The extraction via pourover is the culprit.

 

[HoneyDew]

Uh well as far as I know is not a good idea brewing good ground coffee unless you use some coarse grind and a french press, which will result actually in a good infusion. This kalita sounds like s***, no offence =/, but if you are going to use some good coffee that is not some pre-ground stuff from the supermarket you better get rid of a dripper

 

[timmy78]

Thank you for taking your time to help out a beginner. The day i start pulling espressos at home im sure this experience will come in handy.

 

[andy.easthope]

Andy, I do not doubt what you are saying, but help me understand. It seems to me decreasing the amount of water and ground coffee, while maintaining the same ratio, would do only exactly what you say, drop the yield, i.e. make less of the same coffee. What am I missing? I am gonna feel so dumb...

Hey Kudzo,

Too easy! By keeping the ratio of ground coffee/brew water consistent you will, mostly, preserve the strength/concentration of your brew. You'll also make less brewed coffee by volume.

However, you affect your extraction in 2 ways. Firstly there is less mechanical extraction via percolation, meaning you're not withdrawing as much from the ground coffee (lowering your extraction yield %). Secondly there's less contact time due to reducing the amount of time required to drain!

Hope that helps.

Andy

 

[andy.easthope]

Thank you for the pointers Andy. its good to know the brew concept im using sounds correct.

I have made 3 acceptable cups in a row today, as opposed to the rat poison i made this weekend. I changed 3 parameters today and i havent had the time to backtrack what makes the difference.

1. The coffee i am using comes from another roaster ( i did use coffee from 2 different roasters this weekend)
2. I was looking for something to measure brew temp but i ended up buying the v60 pouring kettle 1,2 liter. easier to pour consistent with.
3. The extra pouring to the "v60 kettle" will most likely lower temperature.

To me the most logical solution is bad coffee but one of the roasters i used this weekend are considered genius by the locals and the other is considered overrated and too expensive but still good. I made some really good coffee from both of them in the past using french press. I have bought more of the same batch i used this weekend but i havent even opened the bag yet. i will open the bag tomorrow and report back in a few days.

4. Can it be that i´ve used too fresh coffee ? i havent had that luxury in the past. week old coffee has been my source for the last decade.


The coffee i have great luck with today is some Columbian washed Castillo from Hernando Gomez, Planadas, Tolima.
I must go to sleep. I cant wait to brew my morning cup tomorrow to try and fine adjust this Castillo.

Drinking bad coffee at home since 11th January makes a grumpy man.

You could be on to something there in regards to the coffee quality

In regards to the v60 pouring kettle, if you've got boiling water and you fill a cold kettle with it, you'll probably lose ~8C / ~45F, which should be reasonably good for pouring!

Thought I'd share my standard method with you. It involes 1x 40gr bloom, and when the bloom begins to look dryer (15-20 seconds in) I fully top up the kalita with the remaining brew water (which if you're using 250-300gr of water is doable). A quick stir at that point will gather your grounds from the edge of the filter paper over the center where the drainage holes lie; if you find your brews are underextracted you can crank up the stirring to agitate the coffee and brew that puppy up.

Your water sounds tasty Timmy.

Cheers!

Andy

 

[timmy78]

Thank you sir for sharing your routine. I am to start brewing the coffee i failed with this weekend tomorrow.

Drinking the last cup of the columbian coffee from supreme roastworks here in norway. i have made some really good cups and equal amount of ok cups. (not a single cup of rat poison) im eager to trying your routine on the beans im unsure of tomorrow ( from another roaster) .

people envy me the low tds. i need to learn more about water quality and coffee. i guess the oxydation potential in the water affects extraction rates while the salt composition (tds) affects taste but i better learn walking properly before running.

i assume this coffee business is equally affected by marketing and the power of beliving as in the food business ( Like San Marzano DOP tomatoes where alot is fake)