JamesDixon
New member
Apparently Kopi Luwak is now being battery farmed! Poop on demand! Becase it's so valuable. I hear its not particularly fantastic though!
Kopi Luwak :)
- Thread starter CoffeeShockwave
- Start date
JamesDixon
New member
For Reference this is the article I am reffering to, it says that Kopi Luwak is "Lifeless"
mantishugo
New member
I can try Kopi Luwak, no big deal. I'm a non vegetarian and since the beans are washed properly and chemically treated to remove the bacteria etc, if anybody who never tasted this highly "hiked" coffee then I suggest you should try it.
I didn't know it was chemically treated to remove the bacteria. Are you sure about that?
coffeeroastersclub
Member
What does being a non vegetarian have to do with it? Are you insinuating that vegetarians won't drink it because it comes from an animal? :lol::lol::lol: If so, Wow! You made my day, thats a good one.
Len
mantishugo
New member
My friend works for a company which sells this coffee. He told me that his company uses some chemical to wash off the beans to clear bacteria. I'm not sure about that but I said what I heard.
hardwire
New member
I did taste this in a proper cafe, served by properly certified & trained baristas. Never been to any other shop that had better baristas. So I will say, it was quite exceptional, completely out of the park. They also offered the Elephant version, which was also completely different and amazing. They had 4 different espresso's on hand any day, and rotate out 2 special espressos. Always dreamed of a cafe with a dozen espresso beans on hand for brewing beverages. Been to two of them and it was truely a dream come true.
But I have to say, the poor animals... Saw videos of caged force fed animals for the high profit in this coffee. It's sad and for that, I'll pass on any future animal coffee offerings.
But I have to say, the poor animals... Saw videos of caged force fed animals for the high profit in this coffee. It's sad and for that, I'll pass on any future animal coffee offerings.
Last edited:
javanize.me
New member
We can say that opinion are of great diversity. I also noticed many stereotype and some sub culture bad practice that received too much media attention.
First, on a culture basis, Indonesian doesn't perceive animal the way westerner does. Animal are food waiting to be eaten or they are pest. Even the Indonesian zoo are horrible as an animal caring level.
That being said, civet were killed on sight before because they were seen as rats. Even caged civet has a better life now than before, because of the Kopi Luwak. *Not talking about the exception of abused force feds animal*. Most concern of bad treatment to the animal mostly come from the people catching the animal and bringing it to the market to sell it to coffee producer. These people are uneducated villagers who don't really consider the animal as something alive other than for the money it will provides them. The farmer on the other hand has all the motivation to keep the animal healthy and in good shape to have a good production. Most caged civet I've seen had quite big cage and looked good. Now of course wild civet have a better life now, but only because Kopi Luwak exist, otherwise they would been killed on sight with traps everywhere.
As per the taste of Kopi Luwak, like people said, the quality of the bean and where it comes from play a role in the quality of the cup. On the other end, it should remove some of the bitterness because the scale of the bean has been digested and removed from the bean and it should also lower the acidity of the bean and keeping only the subtle flower, earth taste of where the bean grew. So it should make the bean better than without the civet. But still an Ethiopian coffee without civet of an exceptionnal quality could still be better than a civet bean from a very bad plantation. We have to compare bean with bean not civet with bean.
People that are scared to eat shit, you have to know that part of the process is to separate the bean from the excrement of the animal. What is left is white bean without the scale. After that is is water cleaned to remove residue of the animal. Once the bean are all clean, the bean are roasted. If you know biology, you probably know that no virus or bacteria, harmful to human can survive 100°C for 20 minutes. Hospital Sterilization procedure is 120°C by steam under pressure for about 15 minutes. Heat is the key ingredient, steam is just efficient to infiltrate deep inside object that require sterilization. (https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/sterile/basics.aspx#TheSterilizationProcess)
There is no danger to consume Kopi Luwak for the health, if the roasting wasn't enough to kill all germ, the barista will surely finished the job quite effectively.
First, on a culture basis, Indonesian doesn't perceive animal the way westerner does. Animal are food waiting to be eaten or they are pest. Even the Indonesian zoo are horrible as an animal caring level.
That being said, civet were killed on sight before because they were seen as rats. Even caged civet has a better life now than before, because of the Kopi Luwak. *Not talking about the exception of abused force feds animal*. Most concern of bad treatment to the animal mostly come from the people catching the animal and bringing it to the market to sell it to coffee producer. These people are uneducated villagers who don't really consider the animal as something alive other than for the money it will provides them. The farmer on the other hand has all the motivation to keep the animal healthy and in good shape to have a good production. Most caged civet I've seen had quite big cage and looked good. Now of course wild civet have a better life now, but only because Kopi Luwak exist, otherwise they would been killed on sight with traps everywhere.
As per the taste of Kopi Luwak, like people said, the quality of the bean and where it comes from play a role in the quality of the cup. On the other end, it should remove some of the bitterness because the scale of the bean has been digested and removed from the bean and it should also lower the acidity of the bean and keeping only the subtle flower, earth taste of where the bean grew. So it should make the bean better than without the civet. But still an Ethiopian coffee without civet of an exceptionnal quality could still be better than a civet bean from a very bad plantation. We have to compare bean with bean not civet with bean.
People that are scared to eat shit, you have to know that part of the process is to separate the bean from the excrement of the animal. What is left is white bean without the scale. After that is is water cleaned to remove residue of the animal. Once the bean are all clean, the bean are roasted. If you know biology, you probably know that no virus or bacteria, harmful to human can survive 100°C for 20 minutes. Hospital Sterilization procedure is 120°C by steam under pressure for about 15 minutes. Heat is the key ingredient, steam is just efficient to infiltrate deep inside object that require sterilization. (https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/sterile/basics.aspx#TheSterilizationProcess)
There is no danger to consume Kopi Luwak for the health, if the roasting wasn't enough to kill all germ, the barista will surely finished the job quite effectively.
javanize.me
New member
One of the main concern about Kopi Luwak and ordering from Internet or from actually anywhere else than the plantation directly. There is a lot of scam and fraud. I even seen on alibaba people selling Kopi Luwak from J.J Royal for 30$ / 100g. Most likely they are fake, the price is way too low and J.J Royal sell it directly at 45$ in Indonesia where they are based.
J.J Royal is a very well established company in Indonesia, renown for high premium coffee quality. Their product for most Indonesian are unaffordable on a day to day basis. They have product from most region of Indonesia and choose the best local producer to create their product. *But they don't sell green bean, only roasted* and aim end user clients. Their Kopi Luwak come sealed and with a certificate ID signature. *Not sure how you can really track the product to ensure it wasn't scam or fraud after it was sold, but at least it is some kind of control between the farmer and J.J Royal to ensure authenticity.*
There is also something very funny about Kopi Luwak when most people tasted it from a small farm in Bali. A farm on the road to go on top of the Batur volcano mountain just after the Kintamani villages where there is many artist kiosk. I stopped there once also and taste different coffee the owner had. It should be said that this place is a tourist trap but still a nice place indeed.
The only drawback of Bali is to be too touristic. People think that Bali is representative of Indonesian people, culture and their coffee. Kintamani coffee is a good coffee as per westerner casual coffee drinker opinion but from my personal experience, compare to other location like Flores, Papua, Sulawesi (toraja), Sumatra (Mandheling), doesn't rate that high.
Also, some remote high altitude region of Indonesia still have botanical variety of Arabica that survived the coffee leaf rust of the early 1900 and are not found anywhere else (or I think) anymore, which make these variety kind of exclusive and rare. (https://www.researchgate.net/public...gration_of_world_coffee_production_since_1850)
J.J Royal is a very well established company in Indonesia, renown for high premium coffee quality. Their product for most Indonesian are unaffordable on a day to day basis. They have product from most region of Indonesia and choose the best local producer to create their product. *But they don't sell green bean, only roasted* and aim end user clients. Their Kopi Luwak come sealed and with a certificate ID signature. *Not sure how you can really track the product to ensure it wasn't scam or fraud after it was sold, but at least it is some kind of control between the farmer and J.J Royal to ensure authenticity.*
There is also something very funny about Kopi Luwak when most people tasted it from a small farm in Bali. A farm on the road to go on top of the Batur volcano mountain just after the Kintamani villages where there is many artist kiosk. I stopped there once also and taste different coffee the owner had. It should be said that this place is a tourist trap but still a nice place indeed.
The only drawback of Bali is to be too touristic. People think that Bali is representative of Indonesian people, culture and their coffee. Kintamani coffee is a good coffee as per westerner casual coffee drinker opinion but from my personal experience, compare to other location like Flores, Papua, Sulawesi (toraja), Sumatra (Mandheling), doesn't rate that high.
Also, some remote high altitude region of Indonesia still have botanical variety of Arabica that survived the coffee leaf rust of the early 1900 and are not found anywhere else (or I think) anymore, which make these variety kind of exclusive and rare. (https://www.researchgate.net/public...gration_of_world_coffee_production_since_1850)
DragunsFire
New member
Someone I know received a gift of a small bag of green beans They asked me to roast, so I tried in my sample roaster. To say it was bad is not right. It was just very different and not for me. I realize the whole 'gift bag' might have been of questionable quality.
Mr.Peaberry
Member
From Wikipedia:
"The origin of kopi luwak is closely connected with the history of coffee production in Indonesia. In the early 18th century the Dutch established the cash-crop coffee plantations in their colony in the Dutch East Indies islands of Java and Sumatra, including Arabica coffee introduced from Yemen. During the era of Cultuurstelsel (1830–70), the Dutch prohibited the native farmers and plantation workers from picking coffee fruits for their own use. Still, the native farmers wanted to have a taste of the famed coffee beverage. Soon, the natives learned that certain species of musang or luwak (Asian palm civet) consumed the coffee fruits, yet they left the coffee seeds undigested in their droppings. The natives collected these luwaks' coffee seed droppings, then cleaned, roasted and ground them to make their own coffee beverage.[SUP][10][/SUP] The fame of aromatic civet coffee spread from locals to Dutch plantation owners and soon became their favourite, yet because of its rarity and unusual process, the civet coffee was expensive even during the colonial era."
IMHO...The rise in popularity of civet coffee occurred during a time in which great coffee just was not common. Harvesting for commercial grade coffee just wasn't...nor is it still...selective enough to make the difference between what an average coffee consumer drank and civet coffee anything but a game changing experience. This is why the Japanese controlled most of the demand for civet coffee until just recently (meaning past couple of decades)...providing a 20% premium over high bid for these select coffees. With the rise in popularity of specialty coffee, I would recon that civet coffee in a double blind taste test would not be ranked at the top of Mt Arabica. It's price is merely driven by human nature to value perception of quality much higher than it should be, and to follow the herd. Just sayin'...
Peaberry
"The origin of kopi luwak is closely connected with the history of coffee production in Indonesia. In the early 18th century the Dutch established the cash-crop coffee plantations in their colony in the Dutch East Indies islands of Java and Sumatra, including Arabica coffee introduced from Yemen. During the era of Cultuurstelsel (1830–70), the Dutch prohibited the native farmers and plantation workers from picking coffee fruits for their own use. Still, the native farmers wanted to have a taste of the famed coffee beverage. Soon, the natives learned that certain species of musang or luwak (Asian palm civet) consumed the coffee fruits, yet they left the coffee seeds undigested in their droppings. The natives collected these luwaks' coffee seed droppings, then cleaned, roasted and ground them to make their own coffee beverage.[SUP][10][/SUP] The fame of aromatic civet coffee spread from locals to Dutch plantation owners and soon became their favourite, yet because of its rarity and unusual process, the civet coffee was expensive even during the colonial era."
IMHO...The rise in popularity of civet coffee occurred during a time in which great coffee just was not common. Harvesting for commercial grade coffee just wasn't...nor is it still...selective enough to make the difference between what an average coffee consumer drank and civet coffee anything but a game changing experience. This is why the Japanese controlled most of the demand for civet coffee until just recently (meaning past couple of decades)...providing a 20% premium over high bid for these select coffees. With the rise in popularity of specialty coffee, I would recon that civet coffee in a double blind taste test would not be ranked at the top of Mt Arabica. It's price is merely driven by human nature to value perception of quality much higher than it should be, and to follow the herd. Just sayin'...
Peaberry
luwakcoffeebeans
New member
I also discovered Kopi Luwak in Bali, and loved it so much that I decided to import it to the United States.
If you're interested in trying a small amount at home (as little as just 2 cups), I'm doing my best to maintain reasonable prices. Much less than $10 per cup!
Here's our website:
https://www.luwakcoffeebeans.com
Cheers,
Ryan
If you're interested in trying a small amount at home (as little as just 2 cups), I'm doing my best to maintain reasonable prices. Much less than $10 per cup!
Here's our website:
https://www.luwakcoffeebeans.com
Cheers,
Ryan
Last edited:
mantishugo
New member
I'm slightly against of promoting this coffee because it is just like any other coffee but in the market it is presented as something "supercoffee". For me it is just a poop coffee which promotes animal abuse in places like Bali.
