coffee reviews

[Redswing]

Do any of you roasters have experience sending off your roasted coffee to get it rated/graded/evaluated?

I'm thinking of Roast magazine, the section where Kenneth Davids does the "coffee review", and he evaluates different coffees. The link in that section to his coffee review website says he charges $295 for a coffee-review style assesment. Are there any other credentialed reviewers out there any of you are using to market your roasts?

I'm interested in seeing where some of my coffee would stand in that kind of a setting. But for me, $295 is a little steep. I would consider trying it, once, for fun though. Any recommendations?

here's the link to the Kenneth Davids site: Coffee Review - The World's Leading Coffee Guide

 

[peterjschmidt]

Look up Jim Schulman at home-barista.com. I'm not sure if he's evaluating roasts any more, but at one time he'd ask for your roasted beans as well as some green, roast the green himself, and then offer you his opinions based on cupping your roast and his. It wouldn't carry the same weight as Coffee Review, as far as posting something on your website (even though most of us would take a great review from Coffee with a BIG grain of salt), Schulman has a very good palate and would give you some honest feedback. He doesn't charge anything per se, but asks that you would make a $25 donation to a coffee organization, I think it was Coffee Kids.

 

[Bardo]

My coffee supplier has offered to cup my coffee and give me feedback. I suspect he and his team will tell me that my coffee is outstanding, and to keep up the good work!

 

[Hankua]

My opinion as a hobbyist; it depends...

Check out Papa Lin's Roasting. He's using an updated version of the Feima800n I've got, nano roasting.
His business model revolves around CoffeeReview and sourcing the best available beans, hand sorted. That's an extreme example, Klatch Roasting also uses CoffeeReview to promote their business.

Papa Lin's Coffee Roasting

Our recent HB roasting competition was judged by Ken David's; my entry was underdeveloped (on purpose) and still rated over 90. My original plan was to roast three samples starting with the lightest RD. Instead of roasting all three, I did the lightest first and ran out of time. Oops

i would consider doing the Review as an investment in yourself, even if the customers don't care.

 

[peterjschmidt]

That also begs the question, for the roasters using Coffee Review as a marketing tool, how many of their customers know anything about Ken Davids and/or their reviews? In a way it's similar to the millions of subscribers to Consumer Reports, and how they spend their money based on what they read. And yet, I'd give way more credence to CR than CR.

 

[ccooper]

I don't think you can use Coffee Review as a marketing tool for consumers. It just doesn't reach enough of them to matter. But it can probably be useful when selling to people in the industry. It's best use, though, is probably validation for what you are doing.

Keep in mind that all reviewers have biases in terms of what they are looking for. Just like Robert Parker is known for certain predilections in wine-tasting, Coffee Review will be the same way. But I feel that their reviews are very fair. We just participated in their first review of ready-to-drink iced coffees, and it was done as a blind tasting. We scored 93, which we were happy with, though previous private evaluations had scored higher. But we know that some customers are looking for something entirely different as iced coffee, and would not appreciate our taste profile. It's an inherently subjective business, but Coffee Review does a good job of trying to bring some objectivity and consistency to it.

 

[peterjschmidt]

I'm curious how they'd score an iced coffee. And if it's their first one how it would give it a 93, like what did they compare it to?

 

[ccooper]

They didn't review just one, they reviewed 16 ready-to-drink iced coffees at the same time. That's the only way to have a blind tasting that makes sense. Only 8 of them were even good enough to be published, ranging from 94 down to 88 points. Criteria was the same as for hot coffee except they did not judge aroma as it doesn't really apply to iced coffee. For aroma they substituted taste with added milk, as that's the way many people like to drink it.

You can read it here: Bottled Iced Coffees - Coffee Review

 

[Redswing]

Good stuff, many thanks for the responses. Think I might send a sample in just to see how it works.

 

[topher]

In the past a company I worked for sent out a bunch of my coffee to coffee review. I wasn't happy when I found out. Like Redswing said....it is expensive. I tried to explain to my boss that he was throwing money away. Our customers didn't know who he was..

 

[ensoluna]

i am not quite certain that coffee review is very objective in cupping and scoring. i just think that they are influenced by marketing and business side too much.

from the first page of coffee review, stumptown COLD COFFEE has 89 points and selling $3.50 for 10.5oz (well, i do not know how they can give 89 points for cold coffee... I really would like to know protocols of rating cold coffee. I have never seen it yet)

Bird Rock has Panama coffee at 95 points selling at $25.99 for 12 oz. also has Sumatra at 96 points selling at $17.99 for 12 oz ?????? !!!!! that is retail pricing !!!!!
(FYI, the Geisha from El Injerto Guatemala that stumptown is selling $120 per 12 oz from El Injerto is rated at 91 points. Teco (real name : jose miguel echeverilla. he won 2014 Guatemala Barista Championship and he works at El Injerto cafe told me yesterday)

they are giving away mid 90 points like going out of style.

let me give you example.
2014 CoE Guatemala winner was Kalibus la Sierra. his coffee was the CoE2014 winner and auctioned off at $42.40 for 24 bags. that is green coffee pricing and the final point was 91.47 (to get this point, there were about 30 cuppers from around the world)

also, the cupping scores can swing + - 2 to 3 points depends on which country the cupper is from. each country (like Japan vs. France) has such different taste and cultural back ground that it is almost impossible to be so objective. that is why CoE invites cuppers from all around the world and average their scores.

 

[peterjschmidt]

That was the joke around the cupping table with my local cupping buddies; when one of us had a score that was way higher than the group average, they'd be called Ken Davids the rest of the session.

 

[JumpinJakJava]

Glad to see that I can keep company with the cupping score skeptics! I have had similar thoughts through the years.
IMO, I put a little more stock in the SCAA cupping scores. Only, because they are supposed to maintain the standard for specialty coffees.
Some have told me that too has changed some. But I hope they will keep the bar high!
I also hold high regard for Sweet Maria's notes and scores. Seem to be honest and hard working folks in the coffee world,
usually check out a number of coffees there. Even if I am not purchasing the same coffees.
A wealth of info, posted all for free. That is awesome, in the day we live!
To me, the best coffee site around, no offense to this forum!
I know they sell green coffees through the Coffee Shrub, but I believe they have earned their integrity.
Occasionally I will visit the Coffee Review. Seems there is a lot of 90's scores there.
But who am I to say those reviews are not accurate. Guess I am not pessimistic.
Just like to live as a realist. A great deal of those coffees are too costly for my budget any way.

 

[peterjschmidt]

The key with any cupping score is to get to know the reviewer and get a feel for their style and numbers.

I too like SM's, and cut my teeth not only for roasting, but then taking the coffee I roasted and cupping it with Tom's notes in front of me so I could hone my palate and vocabulary.

 

[slurp]

Paying for a coffee to be scored is crazy. Opinions are like @ss hole, everyone has one. Most roasters customers are probably not like a guy siting in a room cupping all day. Not to discount the professional but everyone gets jaded or goes on kicks if they do they same thing day after day.

I suggest cup coffee with your customers, their opinion is the one that matters.