Coffee freshness, tips on how to store gourmet coffee...

[Jarafinc]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

right the original order was shipped to the wrong address and so that is why it was not as fresh and then it got shipped to the right address it should have been a new batch but instead we just had a whole bean order sent and that is the reason for the freshness issue...

 

[Crazy4Coffee]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

right the original order was shipped to the wrong address and so that is why it was not as fresh and then it got shipped to the right address it should have been a new batch but instead we just had a whole bean order sent and that is the reason for the freshness issue...

The reason for the freshness issue is that the coffee was sent ground rather than whole bean. In fact, it was stale about 15 minutes after the batch was ground. So, the freshness issue had very little to do with being sent to the wrong address. Being the coffee professional that you are, you already knew that, right?

 

[PinkRose]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

Hey Jarafinc,

Hummmm........I'm confused....

So....how can you say ...."right the original order was shipped to the wrong address and so that is why it was not as fresh and then it got shipped to the right address it should have been a new batch but instead we just had a whole bean order sent and that is the reason for the freshness issue..."

Let's review:

The original coffee order was shipped to the wrong address....

Then the same coffee order was returned......

and then the same packages of coffee were re-shipped to the right address....

After they arrived, the Customer discovered it was ground coffee instead of whole bean.....

Then the Customer complained.....

Then you apologized and sent a new shipment of whole beans....

Can't you see that the freshness issue with the ground coffee happened not only when it was shipped gound instead of whole bean but mostly when the packages were returned and reshipped to the right address without giving the customer a new order of fresh coffee?

That means that during a time span of about three weeks, the ground coffee was wandering around the country getting more and more stale. No wonder it tasted like crap two days after opening the packages. If the Customer didn't complain, he would have been stuck with bad, stale ground coffee.

I really hope that after this whole experience, you'll seriously re-think how you do your drop shipping for the coffee roaster in Florida! You put a lot of time and effort into your business endeavor. It would be a shame to ruin it before it gets off the ground.

Rose

 

[Jarafinc]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

no that is not correct and that is the reason why I said I would send a new shipment it was already in the system so there was no way to retrieve it first that is why and the first order came back I shipped it anyways, but had already shipped the whole bean purchase, and my understanding was that the customer was not even going to keep the order because it had taken so long and so when received I assumed he would be satisfied with the whole bean and understand that they ground shipment was a mistake.

mistakes do happen and I'm sure if you have been in the coffee business more then one day you will know that it happens, but I believe that once we figured out what the problem was that we resolved it as quickly as possible.

like jesus said "you have not sinned cast the first stone." so if you never have made a mistake then go ahead, as for me I endeavor always as Im sure most of you do to correct them quickly and as efficiently as possible...

 

[Jarafinc]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

In fact, it was stale about 15 minutes after the batch was ground. So, the freshness issue had very little to do with being sent to the wrong address. Being the coffee professional that you are, you already knew that, right?

no i did not know that 15 minutes huh? that sounds pretty weird to me I have gotten great reviews from both ground and whole bean orders especially about the freshness....

something is a little off here?

 

[PinkRose]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

James,

Yes, coffee begins to stale as soon as it's ground. There are plenty of people who don't notice a difference, but most people who truly enjoy a cup of fresh coffee can tell the difference between freshly ground coffee and coffee that has been previously ground.

If you don't believe it, then try this for yourself: Take some whole beans and grind them and put the ground coffee away for a day or two. Then take the ground coffee and make your coffee as you would normally do and taste it. Then take some more of the same whole beans and grind them and make your coffee right away. You should be able to taste a difference between the two coffees.

The main problem with previously ground coffee is that it doesn't stay "fresh tasting" very long. As the days go by, the coffee's flavor and aroma become more and more stale. If you open up a can of Folgers or Maxwell House coffee and smell it, you will quickly notice the difference between that and the ground coffee that you sell. Yours is obviously fresher smelling and tasting because yours hasn't been sitting in the can for months at a time. However, your ground coffee is still getting more and more stale as the days go by.

Your customers are bound to say that your ground coffee is fresh because they probably are used to the stale stuff that they get in the supermarket. If they were to get some whole bean coffee and grind it themselves before making their coffee, they'd certainly notice a difference.

As you say, "The proof is in the cup." However, if you're keeping your customers happy and they are enjoying their coffee...then that's what really counts in the end.

Rose

 

[ElPugDiablo]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

Now that mister dropshipper is exposed as what he is, thank you crazy4coffee, I think we can just say he needs a lot more coffee education, not to mention web design knowledge and let him be.....but this thread touched on something very interesting. On the issue of freshness, when is fresh roasted whole bean no longer fresh? For drip coffee, the commonly accepted practice is rest 8 to 48 hours and then for 2 weeks it is considered fresh, assuming proper storage (and what is proper storage? I suggest taped one way valve bag and freezing). Espresso, however, the resting time is longer, I try to rest espresso for two weeks before using. So if I use my two week old espresso for drip, am I dripping old coffee? Lastly, once coffee is ground, how long before it is stale? Try ground one batch a few hours ahead, then ground one batch just before brewing, drip both and taste them side by side, as mister dropshipper likes to say, the proof is in the cup. Crazy as it may be, for beans roasted less than 4 days, I found coffee ground up to 6 hours ahead taste better. There is theory about CO2, water turbulence and under extraction which is way over my head, but this is an easy test.

 

[PinkRose]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

Hi ElPugDiablo

That was an interesting post. Now I'm anxious to try some more side-by side taste tests.

It's obvious that key is to know when the coffee actually was roasted. That's where it pays to either roast it yourself or buy it from a local roaster.

I recently got some Papua New Guinea from my local roaster a few hours after it was roasted. I actually had to leave and go back because they were in the process of roasting the beans when I went in to make my purchase. I prepackaged the beans in zip-lock bags, enough to make a 48 oz. pot each time, and stored the packages in an air-right container. I let the beans set for two days and then made the coffee. It was very good, as usual. But to my amazement, I noticed as several days went by, the coffee was tasting better and better! However, like most things...it didn't last long and it slowly started to taste bitter and stale when it got to the end of the next week. I'm wondering if the rule of thumb should be to keep fresh roasted coffee for no more than two weeks.

Maybe we should start a new thread for this topic and get the free advertisement for Good Scents Gourmet Coffee out of the active topic area.

Rose

 

[Jarafinc]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

I thought that you said coffee was stale in 15 minutes

In fact, it was stale about 15 minutes after the batch was ground. So, the freshness issue had very little to do with being sent to the wrong address. Being the coffee professional that you are, you already knew that, right?

I guess the only way to get truly fresh coffee is to get it roasted straight from the roaster apparently in 15 minutes or buy it whole bean, this is just not true, there are many ways to keep coffee fresh even if it is not whole bean such as taking paper towels in a sealable container this will absorb some of the oxygen and other flavor and freshness robbing elements... also you should try a mason jar instead of plastic this seems to keep coffee much better for some reason reason unknown it just does...

99% of people cannot tell the difference until at least 2 or 3 days not 15 minutes and even then its not that noticeable. If 15 minutes were true that would mean that you can never store coffee unless you order whole bean. Remember Coffee freshness is also influenced by the type of bean, the origin and especially the altitude at which the coffee was grown, if you did not know the higher the altitude the coffee bean is grown the longer it will stay fresh ground or whole bean, and also you have to take into account how long ago the beans were harvested and how dark the roast is that you are storing, of course you really want to avoid storing coffee even whole bean any longer than 10 to 12 days especially if you open the container it is in quite often to be freshest. Also good advice is the darker the roast or longer the bean is roasted the shorter its lifespan, just take fresh non roasted coffee beans and try doing some tests on them you can easily find small batch roasting machines for fairly cheap and roast your own coffee as an experiment and maybe get the freshest coffee possible roasted yourself..

Now that mister dropshipper is exposed as what he is, thank you crazy4coffee, I think we can just say he needs a lot more coffee education, not to mention web design knowledge and let him be.....but this thread touched on something very interesting. On the issue of freshness, when is fresh roasted whole bean no longer fresh? For drip coffee, the commonly accepted practice is rest 8 to 48 hours and then for 2 weeks it is considered fresh, assuming proper storage (and what is proper storage? I suggest taped one way valve bag and freezing)

And my name is not mister dropshipper it is James thanks

I actually know a vast knowledge of coffee and especially the chemicals involved, and espresso is not a different type of bean but actually any coffee beans can become espresso it is just a type of grind ran through the machine, or really just super finely ground coffee.I experimented recently with a neat trick you can if you grind it just right create an espresso type drink with a french press and it tastes absolutely great...

Lastly, once coffee is ground, how long before it is stale?

Even whole bean starts losing its freshness, its just like a body that is dead decomposition sets in immediately, but there are things that you can to do help....

Referigerating coffee is never a good idea, But freezing coffee can be done. Although its a tricky thing to do its not as easy as people think, first you want an extremely cold freezer if its not cold enough it might not work as well, and then you must make sure that the coffee is frozen as soon as possible if not immediately after roasting, frozen coffee is good, if done right coffee can be frozen as long as 2 months if done correctly, But if you don't want to freeze your coffee A good rule of thumb is that You want to keep it cool dark place but not too cool because just like soda will decrease its longevity, it's frozen or cool, not referidgerated...

I have actually frozen coffee that was shipped ground. I immediately froze it in a deep freezer which is extremely cold and it lasted a very long time and really nobody could notice the difference between that and coffee that I had whole bean and ground my self...



By wikipedia, not always accurate but seems to provide good information here

Characteristics of properly made espresso, which distinguish it from drip and other brewing processes, include a thicker consistency than drip coffee, a higher amount of dissolved solids than drip coffee per relative volume, and crema, a reddish-brown foam that floats on the surface and is composed of vegetable oils, proteins and sugars.

As a result of the pressurized brewing process, all of the flavors and chemicals in a typical cup of coffee are very concentrated. For this reason, espresso is the base for other drinks, such as lattes, cappuccino, macchiato and mochas.

While there can be significant variation, on a per-volume basis, espresso contains approximately two to three times the caffeine content of regular drip brewed coffee. Compared on the basis of usual serving sizes, a 30 mL (1 fluid ounce) shot of espresso has about half the caffeine of a standard 180 mL (6 fluid ounce) cup of drip brewed coffee, which varies from 80 to 130 mg.[2]

and think that My website is a great looking website thanks...

as far as the co2 theory...

There is theory about CO2, water turbulence and under extraction which is way over my head, but this is an easy test.

A new Decaffenination Process that's 100% natural and certified organic

For decades, decaf coffee was a poor imitation of richly flavored regular coffee, decaffeinated through chemical or water processes.

Equal Exchange's Naturally Decaffeinated coffees are different. For years they have used the All Natural Liquid Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Decaffeination Process.

While it sounds complicated, the CO2 process is natural and effective. Compressed to a liquid state, Carbon Dioxide — a component of the air we exhale with every breath — is a natural solvent which grabs caffeine and pulls it from the bean. Because it adheres only to the caffeine and not the other elements which provide coffee with its rich flavor, CO2 decafs have more zing than any of the other decaffeinated coffees that we've tried. We hope you'll enjoy your java knowing that it's naturally decaffeinated to be 99.9% caffeine free.

it has nothing to do with freshness of coffee but about decaffing coffee, but this link may help and give you more information on this process

http://books.google.com/books?id=gb...JhEM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10

By 1stincoffee.com

this should answer many questions for you about espresso...

WHAT IS ESPRESSO COFFEE?

The name espresso is Italian in origin. It was first coined around 1900 and, loosely translated, means a cup of coffee brewed expressly for you. Today, you will often find that people incorrectly pronounce or spell it "expresso".

Espresso can be very confusing. Is it a bitter concentrated shot of caffeine? Where did it originate? Can you use sweeteners? What is the creamy froth on top? How should you drink it? Part of the confusion is due to improperly prepared espresso. Correctly brewed espresso is made using a pump-driven or lever operated espresso machine. It is an art and a science. So what makes a true espresso?
Is it the bean?

No. Inaccurate marketing and erroneous word of mouth have given many people the impression that the type of bean determines whether the brew is espresso or not. This is not true. Any type of bean can be used to make good espresso coffee.
Is it the blend?

No. Although there are blends designed specifically for espresso, the blend does not make it espresso. The pursuit of the perfect blend for making espresso coffee has led to this common misconception. Some roasters might even argue that you can only make a good espresso with the right blend. 1st in Coffee offers a variety of espresso blends from illy, Lavazza and Segafredo.
Is it the roast?

No. Popular thought might lead you to believe that espresso must be an extremely dark roast; however the espresso roast varies from region to region. In California, you would be most likely to encounter a dark or "French" roast. On the east coast of the US, a light roast is often preferred. And in Northern Italy, a medium roast is generally used. Any roast can be used to make good espresso. It is entirely a matter of taste.

Are all espresso machines really espresso machines?

No. There are machines out there labeled as "espresso machines" that aren't really true espresso machines. These machines are generally electric "moka" style machines that rely on steam pressure to force water through the ground coffee. Steam pressure is only capable of producing up to 1.5 BAR or 50 PSI of pressure. A true espresso machine must produce a minimum pressure of 9 BAR or 135 PSI (pounds per square inch) to force the water through a bed of finely ground and compacted ground coffee. The steam driven moka pots are often sold in major department stores for $75 or less. They usually include a 4 cup carafe. True espresso machines are pump-driven or lever operated.

SO, WHAT IS ESPRESSO?

Espresso coffee is a small 1 to 2 oz. shot of pressure-brewed coffee using between 6.5 and 7.5 grams (about 1 Tablespoon) of finely ground coffee. Brewing takes about 25 to 30 seconds. Properly brewed, an espresso will feature a layer of rich dark golden cream, called crema on the surface. This crema is one indictor of a quality espresso. Making a great espresso is truly an art as well as a science.

Drinking an espresso coffee can also be an art. In an Italian café, you might witness patrons breathing in the aroma as they hold the cup and saucer, and then drinking the entire beverage in 3 or 4 quick gulps. The ritual is finished by firmly but gently tapping the cup back onto the saucer.

Adding sugar to the espresso is an accepted practice in Italy, and there is no shame in adding sugar to your beverage. But a truly great espresso is a joy to drink without any additives. You can then taste and appreciate the essence of the espresso more completely.

And so you can begin to understand modern espresso, how to prepare it properly, and the traditions behind this wonderful beverage.
The bean

The core of the espresso is the coffee bean. The coffee bean is from the heart of the coffee berry. These coffee berries grow on trees that thrive in tropical climates and at elevations between 2000 and 6000 feet above sea level.

All coffee berries are hand picked or mechanically picked. Hand picked berries are nearly always the best due to better quality assurance. This harvesting method is frequently a factor in the higher cost of premium beans. Berries are then processed and bagged in order to "bring them to market". There are two beans, or seeds, in each berry. The coffee is shipped in this un-roasted state since the un-roasted, or "green", coffee can be kept for much longer than roasted beans, up to two years under the right storage conditions.

All coffee is eventually roasted. Really good coffee is roasted just before brewing, since the average shelf life of roasted coffee beans is only two weeks. After that, the quality of the beans begins to go downhill quickly. Taste and aroma can fade rapidly.

Like so many other aspects of coffee, and espresso in particular, good roasting is also an art with a firm basis in science. Beans are roasted in rotating drums at approximately 450F degrees for 10 to 20 minutes. To accommodate the particular roasting machine and the roaster's preference, the roasting time and temperature may be adjusted. This adjustment is known as the "roasting profile".

After roasting, the beans will need to rest for 12 to 36 hours for degassing. The various gases produced by the roasting process are released in this resting stage. The roasting process causes a variety of chemical changes in the coffee bean. Roasted coffee beans contain 1500 chemical substances that interact to create the distinctive flavor of your coffee. And so we can begin to appreciate that this seemingly simple drink is really very complex.
The espresso machine

Espresso coffee has been around for quite awhile. Luigi Bezzera patented the first steam driven espresso machine in 1901. He called his creation the Tipo Gigante. In 1905, Desidero Pavoni bought Bezzera's patent and brought it to market as the Pavoni Ideale. These early machines were much like the modern moka style brewer.

The modern espresso machine made its debut in 1947, when Gaggia revolutionized the industry with the piston lever Crema Caffe machine. This was the first of the marvelous machines capable of consistently producing the high pressures necessary to create espresso. The Gaggia Crema Caffe was ideal for commercial use due to the ease of its operation and reasonable price. Italy's espresso culture was truly born.

This is a great site that really does have great coffee!!

James Not mister dropshipper

 

[Crazy4Coffee]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

Freezing coffee or referigerating coffee is never a good idea, its a definite no no and definitely an amateur.

ElPugDiablo, I believe he just called you an amateur :wink: .

Wow, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, especially when you suffer from a complete lack of reading comprehension.

I give up. I'm done feeding this troll.

 

[Jarafinc]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

you quoted a misquote I edited that page I wrote that mistakenly it was a misrespresented quote thanks. I changed it and thanks for resorting to the name calling if you just read the updated post you would understand

thanks

 

[caffe biscotto]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

... I believe he just called you an amateur :wink: .

Hey, what's up with that? Instigating more drama will only overshadow any useful information that any of the members here have to contribute. Don't you think so? EPD or whomever, can decipher for themselves, if someone is attacking their professionalism.

I agree on leaving out any name calling too. This can be a fun and enlightening site, while still respecting each other as industry professionals and just as the coffee enthusiasts that we are.

 

[ElPugDiablo]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

Jimmy, I'm talking about in the brewing process, when CO2 is released from fresh roasted ground coffee thus caused water turbulence, thus affected the evenness of the coffee bed, thus caused channeling thus caused uneven extraction, not a particular decaf process. You do know fresh roasted coffee releases CO2, right? I want to say I wasted 5 minutes of my life to read your latest post, but it makes me laugh so its time well spent. But that is OK, Jimmy, you just keep on doing your research, I will leave you with this to cogitate; kiss enough toads, soon or later you will find your prince charming.

 

[Jarafinc]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

I thought it was great information maybe for others and not particularly you and if you can't learn or you know everything how can you ever learn.A lot of what I have learned especially coffee is from others, and I beleive this forum is exactly that a way to learn, a tool. I hope you don't kiss me or anybody else, because toads cant create princes, I hope others are more open to learning especially about good techniques on how to keep coffee fresh and other information that may help, I am not biased to whom I receive my information from as long as they know what they are talking about and of course love coffee like me!!! Did you read the articles because I am not sure what you are referring to anybody I ask has no idea either, the only process of carbon dioxide extraction that i know is referring to extracting co2 for decafination or in certain herbs for medical purposes I have never heard this referred to coffee, I would like some more information this would greatly be appreciated

A great article about co2 extraction I found was http://www.scribd.com/doc/7574112/The-M ... Extraction

and the other thing is that it is crazy expensive and impractical for coffee I dunno I just never heard it applied to coffee except for decafination, maybe someone else knows please let me know So can I do some more research about it

and it took me a while to get the research I wrote earlier so I hope somebody learned something from it I know I sure did....

 

[Jarafinc]

Re: Free shipping at Good Scents Gourmet Coffee

The best most effective and affordable way to keep your coffee fresh I have seen so far is freshly roasted frozen coffee. So over all especially if you are new to coffee, just buy freshly roasted coffee and then freeze it in a deep freezer which I have seen coffee kept fresh up to 2 or 3 months, to where folks did not even notice the difference, or if you don't want to freeze it keep it in a mason jar with a paper towel in the bottom of the jar and this will keep for a little while, this will keep it fresh for around a week, to where you will not notice the difference...

Try it and then let me know remember never refrigerate it but keep it cool, and try not to use plastic bags or ziplock containers, because this for some reason does not work as well...

James