The magic bean question

[itsabean]

I shouldn't be surprised, and I haven't been when asking that telling question I've read about here on the forums. Most recently, it happened at a permanent large kiosk type place in a local shopping mall that specializes in coffee drinks and associated goodies. Seeing that they also sell whole beans, I inquired about them (displayed in large glass jars on shelves behind the counter). After being assured they are "fresh," I asked the magic question: Do you know the roast date(s)? The one-word answer: "No," but "they're all fresh."
I'm learning. Thanks, all!

 

[peterjschmidt]

The beans may very well have in fact been fresh, whether or not the person knew the roast date.

 

[chast]

What's your def of "fresh"? day, week? that morning? Some beans taste better when they have rested for several days 4-7 respectively

 

[itsabean]

Chast--I'm far from even a junior "expert," but what I've been reading here on the forums and elsewhere, such as Tom's Sweet Marie, is that fresh roasted beans do need to rest for a few days to out-gas their excessive CO2. I've also been learning that after this period, their fresh life is pretty much a thing of the past after a couple weeks max (excluding the extended freshness possible via freezing). I've been reading this in several places.
Peter, with this as a background, it seems logical that if the roasting occurred within the last couple weeks for the beans in the large glass jars behind the counter the store should definitely be aware of their roast dates, or they should actually be displayed on the containers.
Again, I'm a newbie and subject to correcting any misinformation I have gathered.

 

[peterjschmidt]

In general, I'd say you are correct in your understanding of freshness.

I'm just thinking that the person whom you dealt with didn't know the roast date, but that doesn't mean they weren't fresh. That person is probably just there to pour coffees and weigh out beans.

If it was my shop, I probably wouldn't get as detailed as posting the roasted date either, as it'd be just one more detail to watch over, and the way 12 coffees cycle through and get replenished, it could be a real headache. And I don't think it's all that important and wouldn't necessarily use it as a parameter for a buying decision if I was the customer. Taste has to be the deciding factor; if you buy beans w/o knowing the roast date, then it's up to your palate to decide if you'll buy again.

 

[itsabean]

Points well taken. Thanks, Peter.

 

[chast]

Beans, like tea should not be stored in clear glass containers and exposed to light. Lot of opinions on this site as to let beans rest longer or not. Longer resting period is not for more escaping gas, just to let the flavors come together. Like Peter said, it is your taste buds that will determine the quality.

 

[peterjschmidt]

Beans, like tea should not be stored in clear glass containers and exposed to light. Lot of opinions on this site as to let beans rest longer or not. Longer resting period is not for more escaping gas, just to let the flavors come together. Like Peter said, it is your taste buds that will determine the quality.

Charlie, I can't document this, but it's my understanding that the outgassing of the CO2 is what enables the flavor compounds to come together and that's why the coffee improves during the rest period. Hopefully, I'm not passing on inaccurate info.

 

[chast]

no you are correct Peter. If I wrote that co2 can take up to 4-6 days it would have been an outcry! I let my beans stay in valve bags for 24 hours then seal them in air tight containers and don't touch them for at least 5 days. The coffee purists will knock me down but certain beans taste better and bring out more flavor this way. I believe you mentioned in a post a couple of months ago regarding beans resting longer can taste better.

 

[GKcoffee]

Make sure that you don't put the beans in an air tight container too soon. During the first 18-24 hours of roasting, the beans are going through degassing (i.e. CO2 is escaping the beans) and if the gas has nowhere to go, it may put too much pressure on the container. It's unlikely to happen since the beans are probably older than a couple of days after you receive them. But in the single-serve industry, which is what we do, the desire to pack the freshest coffee must be balanced with the physics of how much pressure the container is able to withstand. Good luck figuring it out!

 

[coffeemannw]

As a coffee roaster, we put the roast date on the bag. Any barista serving our coffee can see exactly when it was roasted. This should be an industry standard. Yes, ultimately taste is the deciding factor, however, age is generally a good indicator of taste. There will always be outliers, however, example: Patrick Stewart (that guy hasn't aged in 25 years).

 

[kopi_ningrat]

no you are correct Peter. If I wrote that co2 can take up to 4-6 days it would have been an outcry! I let my beans stay in valve bags for 24 hours then seal them in air tight containers and don't touch them for at least 5 days. The coffee purists will knock me down but certain beans taste better and bring out more flavor this way. I believe you mentioned in a post a couple of months ago regarding beans resting longer can taste better.

Does it go to all kind of beans or only for several kind of beans?

 

[itsabean]

I know that to have fresh roasted beans on hand, it means either buying from a local roaster who supplies his roast date or roasting them yourself. There is most likely agreement on that. Now, it appears to me that there might be another option. As Peter stated earlier in this thread, just because no roast date is provided doesn't mean the beans are not fresh.
My experiment was to purchase beans at a local health food store labelled only with the date they were loaded into the store dispenser. I purchased them three days after that "bin fill" date. Extractions and taste were good. After expecting the need for a finer grind, I saw that my usual grind setting was what was needed for a 24 second extraction at proper pressure, flow and color. So, in this case, they were still fresh even though no roast date was supplied and even though they were purchased at a regular retail store. By the way, I noted when filling them into the bag that the beans looked good--medium dark roast with slight wet surface.