Question of legality ...

[larsmith217]

If there is a more appropriate forum for the following post, please tell me

I've only just begun to roast

My wife and I are gearing up to see if there's a sustainable market in our area for fresh-roasted coffee.

We've considered parking our vehicle near a local highway ( in a rural area ... not a high-speed highway ... cars pass thru a small community near our home where the speed limit is 30mph ) and posting a "FREE COFFEE" sign. There's lots of room in the area ( the highway is wide enough, for safety concerns ... there's livestock auctions in the area, every week, and large trucks and trailers park along this road way, without congestion ).

My questions are :

May we LEGALLY

1) roast, grind, brew and GIVE AWAY cups of coffee ?

2) give away small packaged samples of the coffee which we roast and grind ?

3) roast coffee which is owned by other people, upon their request for us to do so ?

ie: can we do these things without licensing / permits, etc.

 

[peterjschmidt]

I doubt that this would be considered legal, based on the hoops that restaurants have to jump through, since brewed coffee would be considered a beverage and treated like food prep.

That said, other than leaving a bad taste in the mouth of any local authorities you'd have to deal with once you decide to conform to the laws of the state or municipality you're in, I'd say just go do it. It's usually easier to get forgiveness than permission, and you may be out there for a couple weeks w/o any hassles from a legal standpoint and decide it's not as good an idea as you thought. Go try it, and see if it works.

 

[eldub]

I'm guessing you can legally give away coffee. However, you should jump in all the way or stay out of the water, imo. Giving away coffee samples will not be an indication that people will be willing to buy your product.

 

[larsmith217]

From what I understand, it's not illegal for a guest at a family gathering ( or a reunion of Frat brothers or pick-up basketball buddies, etc ) to prepare a meal for the gang, at the home of one of the members of the group. Even if there's meat being cut up / proportioned, it's not illegal for one ( or more ) of the guests in the home to "process" the food ( no matter what foods were prepared ) which others will consume consume.

There are groups of "pay it forward" / "random act of kindness" people who give out food and drinks to homeless people ... foods which they've "processed" in their own homes.

When my wife was sick, this past summer ( tick bite & lyme disease symptoms ), one of the families of the church prepared some food in their own home ( kitchen ) and delivered it to us, for us to eat.

My understanding is that it's not even nearly illegal to do any of the above.

Without information to the contrary, in any of the above anecdotal situations, it's apparent that it's not illegal 1) to give food items to others 2) to process food for others to consume 3) to process some one else's food, for consumption by them and their guests 4) for one or more individuals to process food and to give it away to anyone of your own choosing.

What the law has to say about processing food ( by a business ) is that there are regulations pertaining to purchasing a food that will be later processed, so as to add value to that food which is intended to be sold to and eaten by consumers. ( ie: what McDonalds and Starbucks do ).

To the best of my knowledge, there are no laws / rules / regulations which deal with family reunions, where Uncle Jack will be doing the hamburgs, his wife will be doing the hot dogs and toasting the buns, their nephew will be using Camp Cheff Explorer to do up the steaks, Gramma's the best it cooking the lobster, etc.

Similarly, to the best of my knowledge, when one-time class mates throw a home-coming party, the law has nothing to say about who may and who may not cook the meal nor any part there-of.

Does anyone have any information about anyone being charged with "breaking the law" or fined for having done any of the above-indicated scenarios ?

 

[JumpinJakJava]

May we legally? There may be a coffee loving lawyer in the forum who could answer this or steer you in the right direction. IMHO you should seek the answer
through a local/state municipal enquiry. This is really the best way to start. Permits, permission. May take time and some expense, but that is only going to
help you in the long run in establishing a name and marketing your product. Too many cut corners, often to their own demise in business.

 

[tazzadiluna]

I'm not a lawyer, but I agree with JJJ. When you start dealing with the public, it becomes a totally different issue. Even if you are giving away samples you can still get someone sick, you can get sued, etc. If your intention is to start a business, you should do everything legally. Don't ever cut corners. At the very least, if your plan is only giving away stuff and none for profit, you're probably going to need a non-profit permit so the fee will be lower. Definitely check with your state/city departments especially if you're going to do this on a regular basis.

 

[John P]

Either you want to be a business or not. You can't treat a business as a non-business because you want to see if people actually like said business.

Find a spot you can legally rent to set up a stand. Don't be so damn cheap. Put some skin in the game, shed a little blood.
And if you are thinking about this as a business, at the bare minimum, do a buy one/get one kind of thing. Because even as promotion/marketing, you never want your first interaction with potential customers to be, "We have no real confidence in the value of our product, therefore we are giving it away in hopes that you see some value." No need to aim for the stars with a simple set up, but price with confidence. I'm sure you have seen prices that the top vendors can charge at Farmer's Markets and such.

Do it right. Do it with confidence! Not doing so speaks volumes.

 

[IslandRoast]

When I decided to go into business (roasting and selling retail/wholesale), I researched who regulated such businesses in my state which is NC Dept of Agriculture. They told me exactly what needed to be done for me to operate legally. I don't have a coffee shop yet but have already got the regulations for that also. Go to your state Dept of Ag, tell them what you want to do and do it by the book. As far as insurance goes, I had commercial liability insurance before I sold my first bag of coffee. You have got to CYA when dealing with the public.
If you're going to get into the coffee game as John P says do it right, don't half arse it. Jusy my .02

 

[larsmith217]

Valuable information, tho it doesn't answer either my questions or my concerns.
If I can LEGALLY go about making coffee available to interest parties and do so without the red tape associated with dealing with politics and non-elected gov't representatives, as my costs ultimately impact the customer's costs, it makes sense for me not to take on the extra costs ( nor red tape ).
I have no desire to function ILLEGALLY, any more than I wish to operate in any way which jeopardizes potential ( as-yet unattained ) customers.
This is why I've already contacted the Dept of H, the Dept of Ag & Marketing and why I'm pursuing satisfying their regulations, should I become convinced that any other approach to getting high-quality coffee into the hands of people in my community is ILLEGAL.

 

[JumpinJakJava]

Sorry for the lack of legal advice. If you satisfy the regulations of the stated depts.,
you may still have to deal with state/local regs.(Dept. of Transportation-setting up roadside).
Good luck getting around red tape and many officials with their "authoritative strokes", elected or not.
Have you considered that someone might just not like the whole idea and cause you trouble with complaining to some officials.
Maybe zoning enforcers or Police dept. Some people have nothing better to do.
Please do not think I am exaggerating these things. Happens every day.
No one who posted is trying to discourage you. We all advocate free marketing and encourage business.
I hope you the best in this venture, the best advice you already received in a number of posts.
Do it right from the beginning, cover all your bases. Believe me, there will still be some surprises.

 

[John P]

If you want to make and roast coffee for friends, family, co-workers... have at it. But once you are in a public setting serving consumables to "the public" you've crossed into a different area. It's not a company picnic, or a party at uncle Hank's. The whole idea of "can I" is irrelevant, and should be quickly supplanted by the question "Should I?"

I don't know if it's any different than selling sweet corn by the side of the road, which is something I did many summers growing up, but that was 30 years ago, and it's a much more litigious society with a lot of a-holes out there. If anything, protect yourself. There is no accounting for the vast amount of pure stupidity that is out there.

 

[PinkRose]

Hi "Larsmith217"

As you can see. many of us think giving out cups of coffee and packs of roasted samples on the side of a highway isn't a good idea.

If you're really determined to give it away so you can test your area for a "sustainable market" it would be safer to do it at as a part of a community function such as as a church gathering, or some other place where you can donate your time and products. There are probably plenty of places that would welcome a free coffee setup for their gatherings and meetings. That way, people can taste test your coffee, and you won't be totally liable if something goes wrong.

Rose

 

[Zimmy]

Either you want to be a business or not. You can't treat a business as a non-business because you want to see if people actually like said business.

Find a spot you can legally rent to set up a stand. Don't be so damn cheap. Put some skin in the game, shed a little blood.
And if you are thinking about this as a business, at the bare minimum, do a buy one/get one kind of thing. Because even as promotion/marketing, you never want your first interaction with potential customers to be, "We have no real confidence in the value of our product, therefore we are giving it away in hopes that you see some value." No need to aim for the stars with a simple set up, but price with confidence. I'm sure you have seen prices that the top vendors can charge at Farmer's Markets and such.

Do it right. Do it with confidence! Not doing so speaks volumes.

Right on John!... Yes it's scary to jump in... But be confident about your passion and success will inevitably follow...

When it comes to legality I look at it in the light of selling or giving... But it goes deeper than that...

If you're selling you need to have all the proper licensing for your area local/state/federal... It's a pain but it is necessary to substantiate yourself as a retailer... As my father always told me "It costs money to ride the bus"... That statement becomes more valid to me every day... Get the funding (yea it takes a lot of blood, sweat and tears) and do it right... Let your passion shine through...

If you're giving samples away... Technically you can give whatever you want to whomever you want and it is their choice wether to use (in this case consume) that thing or product... However, LIABILITY... Get someone sick and you could be over your head in lawsuits before you ever get the chance to take off... Location also comes into play... Everyone will want their dues, so be careful about where you "share"... You could get a ticket for setting up on the side of the road... But you can skirt that by being on private property and having written, signed (yes written and signed) permission to operate your sample truck/shack/stand... IE Rose's suggestion of church gathering... It should be stated you still cannot sell anything... However, you are still liable if there is an issue with public health... Not to mention the person that has allowed you to use their property is also liable...

Also within the above comment... Perception is very important... You need to exude what you want the customer to know and feel about your product...

Echoing what everyone has said in this feed --CYA--

If you need to raise funds look into kickstarter or indiegogo... Do it right from the beginning and you will most likely be successful...

I wish you all the best...

 

[larsmith217]

JJJ, ty for your response. It offers me things about which I've not thought.

 

[larsmith217]

Don't be so damn cheap.

Thank you, John, for those encouraging and so obviously non-judgemental words.

The matter of the fact is I've no choice but to be "so damn cheap", since I'm so close to being broke. I've been unemployed for over 25 months and my wife and I are living on our diminishing savings ( I'm guessing that we've got perhaps $2000 or less in the bank. ) Fortunately, we have no other debts.