Machine advice?

[Redswing]

I've been keeping my eye out for espresso machines, and have talked to the owner of this one: Espresso Machine a few times. Nobody is biting on it (probably a reason?) It was owned by a guy who opened a shop up and then shut the doors about 6 months later. Bought it new from an area roaster when he started.

Would anybody here recommend or condemn this machine for my personal use? I don't have an espresso machine now, and am just looking to have something good enough to taste my own roasted espresso with so I have a better feel for what I'm giving people. Right now, I'm tasting on other peoples machines, and it just feels a little podunk.

Thanks in advance.
-greg

 

[kboom1]

doesn't look to bad for a starter setup if you were close by to check it out in person. I'd never trust a used espresso machine without trying it first.

 

[John P]

If it's solely for espresso testing I'd opt for a good prosumer machine for a little bit more. The Astra is not a good machine by the stretchiest of imaginations.
Get something with a PID for $1200-$1500 and that will be much better for your purposes.

 

[Redswing]

Thanks guys. John, could you suggest what brands I should be looking at in your suggested price range? Perhaps it is time to start saving and just get it over with.

The Astra is in the same town I'm in, so I've seen it and talked with the owner in person. The machine is barely used, but I don't want it if its just gonna frustrate me with bad and inconsistent results. I was kinda thinking I could offer him like $750 or something since its been sitting for a while now.

 

[CoffeeJunky]

I think it really depends on what you are going to use this for.
If you are planning on using at a busy coffee shop, it would not be a good idea at all but for personal use or light use(less then 50 shots per day) i don't see why this wouldn't work.

 

[peterjschmidt]

The consistency and repeatibility of the machine are what you need the most; since you're wanting to evaluate your espresso blends, you want to remove the variable of the machine. IOW, if it takes 5 attempts to get a truly good shot, a shot that is representative of that given blend, then you'll have a hard time knowing if it was a great blend or if the machine was all over the place.

I like my Vivaldi II a lot, for that reason. There are several great machines in that same price range, the Alex Duetto, Quick Mill, Rocket, to name a few, but you may need to wait for a used machine to bring it close to your budget.

And then there's the grinder...

 

[John P]

What Peter says.

And yes, grinder first.

 

[shadow745]

Looks like a great deal to me. Definitely check it out before pulling the trigger on it though. IMBHO the build quality of that Astra will be better than most prosumer machines and likely outlast them. By prosumer I mean the current coffee fanboy toys that are all about double boilers, PIDs, flashy exteriors, etc. All you need for great espresso consistently is controlled water temperature, pressure and volume. Doesn't take rocket science or all the gadgets added to equipment to make that happen.

The grinder looks to be a Rancilio MD40 or 50 (not sure of the difference right offhand), which would be a fantastic grinder in a medium volume commercial setting. Would be overkill at home and probably not much difference in grind quality when compared to the Vario.

I would suggest trying some commercially/artisan roasted "espresso specific" coffees just to get a feel/taste for it. Look for coffees that utilize similar bean origin/roast profile compared to what you intend to roast.

 

[samuelstafford]

I definitely would agree with the advice above. I have a Rancilio Silvia and Rocky. The Silvia has a PID and I hacked the Rocky to make it stepless. Throw in a larger basket from espresso parts, etc, etc. Basically, I've had to tweak this whole setup for months to get consistent results and I'm still only halfway to matching espresso pulled by my favorite shops. I would definitely pay upfront for an espresso setup.

 

[Redswing]

Tough for me to decipher here. Could somebody give an example of what makes the Astra a poor choice compared to a $1500 prosumer machine? Is there a lack of control? Are shots not repeatable?

The only espresso machine I've played on was a little Iberital Junior, and it seemed to me all you could do was push a button initiating some sort of timed shot, leaving shot quality to grind consistency and quantity.

For all the warnings I hear about espresso machines, I am pretty leary to even make an attempt.

 

[shadow745]

It is by no means a poor choice. It's a rock solid workhorse machine that doesn't have or need all the bells and whistles that some prosumer machines have. Problem is some people have no skill or understanding of equipment, coffee, the variables involved and want the equipment to do all the work. Double boilers, PIDs, etc. take all the skill out of it and the 'barista' becomes a monkey pushing a button. Some nerds go so far as to weigh the ground coffee to .1 gram, measure water temperature to .1 degree and even weigh the extraction. If you have to do that much to dial something in instead of relying on taste, eyeballing, etc then you don't have skill.

 

[shadow745]

Haven't had the time to research that Astra, but more than likely it's a heat exchange machine. Some fanboys don't like heat exchange machines as they have their heads up the butts of La Marzocco. AFAIK they did invent the dual boiler machine and of course think they own the espresso world. Hardly the case. I have worked on a few LM machines and found them average at best. The heat exchange NS Aurelia I owned/operated ran circles around those polished turd La Marzoccos all day long. Don't be put off by heat exchange machines as they are just as solid as any other machine out there once you find the sweet spot, which all equipment has. Just a matter of finding what works for YOU and stick with it.

 

[peterjschmidt]

Sounds like you have an axe to grind, shadow.

Problem is some people have no skill or understanding of equipment, coffee, the variables involved and want the equipment to do all the work. Double boilers, PIDs, etc. take all the skill out of it and the 'barista' becomes a monkey pushing a button.

You've probably spent years behind various espresso machines and honed your skills. The OP hasn't. And yet you think he'll be well served by a machine that takes a good chunk of time to become proficient with. All because you don't like the 'fanboys' and 'monkeys' that use machines you don't like.

 

[shadow745]

Sounds like you have an axe to grind, shadow.





You've probably spent years behind various espresso machines and honed your skills. The OP hasn't. And yet you think he'll be well served by a machine that takes a good chunk of time to become proficient with. All because you don't like the 'fanboys' and 'monkeys' that use machines you don't like.

No axe to grind, just call it as I see it and care less if others like what I have to say. The only way to learn is to be hands-on. Would you really enjoy espresso if there were NO challenges involved at all? Probably not....

Problem is lots of people in the world want results NOW with little time and effort involved. Espresso is something that takes awhile to understand and having training wheels to fall back on to figure it out for you is a waste.

 

[peterjschmidt]

You are correct. But in this case, removing the variable of the machine is what we're talking about for a somewhat new roaster who is wanting to explore his espresso blends.