Logging Software Pros Please Reply

[expat]

If you use logging software -- how does it really help you?

Our coffee roasting experience is that everyday can be a new day. If it is hot or cold or balmy or humid or windy or rainy or snowy or sleeting or hailing or there's a gale force wind blowing in off the ocean (the Atlantic is about 1/2 km from our front door) or all of the above, which often happens in Ireland, all those factors can change your roast. I think this is where some of that 'artisan' roasting comes in; coping with all the changes - using eyes, ears, smell, taste to produce a good roast.

So does the logger help with that or is it only for roasting in a static environment?

Oh, and the big guys I know using computer controlled roasting equipment, churning out tons of coffee a week - Java Republic, Bewley's, Costa -- their coffee often has a faint (or not so faint) burnt taste in the finish of the cup. They have a much more controlled environment to roast in, and use the software to duplicate their roasts, so what's up with that?

 

[Musicphan]

I use Artisian software.... and I use it like an added 'set of eyes'. As you stated environmental factors will change your roast, this simply helps tell me if I'm track.

 

[sae]

I can't imagine roasting without some kind of logging. I use Artisan as well - it's amazing for predicting when dry end occurs and when first crack will hit. Especially with all your changes I think it would be a good idea. If you don't have probes in your roaster you might want to start with manually tracking the roast by typing in the temperatures - I don't know if Artisan will do this but there are some iPad apps that will.

 

[Mr.Peaberry]

As many of you know, I've been working on a turbo oven home roaster build. Yesterday I went out and purchased some K type thermocouple wire. My next move will be to remove the transformer from an old microwave I believe to be in my garage, although I have yet to look for it. I will use the transformer to make a tac welder with which to make the thermocouple. I was on YouTube watching a video on thermocouples, and the fact that there is a "cold" and a "hot" contact point on the thermocouple. The cold contact point is the control and needs to be calibrated to ambient temperature. Cheap digital thermometers and multimeters have very inexpensive ambient temperature sensors and therefore have an intrinsic variance from actual temperature. My question for anyone who might know, is this variance constant in the temperature range above room temperature to 500F? If so, is there really any need to spend the money on an expensive multimeter or thermometer? Aren't the change in temperature and the rate of rise the most important variables? I don't see that having the precise temperature is as important as the consistency in recording the deltas on these two variables. As I like to say, all we need are visual and audible clues as to what is happening in the roast and know how to adjust for variations from the desired profile. Any advice on what to attach my thermocouples to is welcome. I'm not yet looking for PID control necessarily. I also am concerned about the on/off of the turbo oven throughout the roast, and would like to use a Variac for this, but these are fairly pricey too. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance guys...

Peaberry

 

[sae]

@Mr.Peaberry - I think you need to start your own thread to ask your questions as it's a deviation from the initial question. That said, a quick and easy solution for you would be to purchase a TC4 board that you can hook up to artisan roasting software 4-Channel Thermocouple Input Arduino(TM) compatible Shields and Boards

 

[Mr.Peaberry]

You're absolutely right sae, I should have started a new thread. I kind of thought that it was relatively the same subject & for this particular forum, I didn't feel that it would be appropriate to have so many different threads on a similar topic. My apologies to expat for hijacking his thread!!

 

[JohnD18]

I use Typica (was using Artisan, but Typica has a bit more functionality) and I couldn't imagine roasting without it. It serves as a roadmap to my roast really, and through the graph, I can tell a lot about how the roast is going. How much development time I got, how the development time of the entire process progressed, my rate of rise (did it flatten out, go too fast/slow, etc) and helps me predict when I need to ease off and on the gas. It also helps to mitigate the troublesome time around 1st crack when the ROR can suddenly drop, and then run away. It helps to give you a better understanding of what is going on.

 

[Mr.Peaberry]

Nice to hear of your preference for Typica. Are your TC's connected to a TC4 board, PID or a datalogger?

 

[expat]

Well, you've convinced me to give it a go. I was thinking Artisan but now John, who is always disrupting things , has suggested Typica logging software as superior. Sounds like Mr Peaberry concurs. Any other opinions out there -- along with the reason why -- on your preferred logging solution?

 

[JohnD18]

Nice to hear of your preference for Typica. Are your TC's connected to a TC4 board, PID or a datalogger?

My TCs are connected directly to the roaster (Diedrich had an option for a thermocouple USB port), I do know they are the Phidget 1048, K Type though. I have 4 TCs that measure Bean, Drum, Exhaust and Ambient temp. I only find the bean temp very useful. The drum temp helps when charging, but other than that I never pay attention to the others.

I hear great things about Cropster, but can't justify the steep pricing.

 

[Mr.Peaberry]

My TCs are connected directly to the roaster (Diedrich had an option for a thermocouple USB port), I do know they are the Phidget 1048, K Type though. I have 4 TCs that measure Bean, Drum, Exhaust and Ambient temp. I only find the bean temp very useful. The drum temp helps when charging, but other than that I never pay attention to the others.

I hear great things about Cropster, but can't justify the steep pricing.

So my question then is this, since the interface for John's thermocouples was provided by Diedrich, and I am needing to create this interface for my turbo oven build, can I use a PID as an interface to Typica on my computer to log and control the heat element, or is there some other hardware required to link between the TC's and computer?

 

[sae]

the TC4 board I linked to before is the "go between link" between the thermocouples and your computer. Artisan even has the TC4 as a board option so you just plug it in, choose it from the list and away you go. Not sure if typical supports it or not. Both Artisan and Typica are free downloads so I'd say try both and see which you like the most.

 

[Amhas]

My TCs are connected directly to the roaster (Diedrich had an option for a thermocouple USB port), I do know they are the Phidget 1048, K Type though. I have 4 TCs that measure Bean, Drum, Exhaust and Ambient temp. I only find the bean temp very useful. The drum temp helps when charging, but other than that I never pay attention to the others.

I hear great things about Cropster, but can't justify the steep pricing.

I'm using Artisan too... Setup just as John stated above and can concur with what he said. I don't think I could roast effectively with out this. I actually never (very rarely) smell/sample the beans through out the roast using the sampler now. Two things, using the sampler can impact the roast some (very slight if you aren't fast) by releasing heat. This can be seen in the bean temp thermometer (may be a good side topic)... The second thing is that once I find a profile I like it is much easier to see and predict and control the rate of rise through out the roast which allows me to make adjustments to compensate for external influences/variables. I'm far from perfect but I found it more of a scientific approach to a repeatable process when attempting to get to 1st C at some point in time and managing the ROR following that.
I still find that I have some conditions that are unexpected and even with a very very similar profile the flavor can change, which I have yet to totally isolate. Unfortunately I can't/don't have the ability to measure all the different variables.:decaf:

So short answer is yes I'd say it is a must if you want to be truly consistent.

Good luck!:images:

 

[Amhas]

So my question then is this, since the interface for John's thermocouples was provided by Diedrich, and I am needing to create this interface for my turbo oven build, can I use a PID as an interface to Typica on my computer to log and control the heat element, or is there some other hardware required to link between the TC's and computer?

Mr. Peaberry,
I'd check the Typica documentation to answer your question.
Typica - Data for Coffee Roasters
The Diedrich setup would vary based on what you choose to have them install. I had a couple of options, but the Phidget module which provides a connect between the thermocouplers and the PC and which are compatible with the Artisan software. I haven't looked into physically doing this myself from a technical perspective since I thought it would be easier to have Diedrich install this at the factory (I didn't want to start drilling and physically modifying my IR1), so I can't advise on the technical part.
I will say that Artisan doesn't have all the functionality I'd want if I was a high production shop like tracking inventory. I'd like a way to track gas pressure as well but I haven't found an easy way to do that yet so I do that on in a roast log. Looks like Typica has more of those features but that one might want if they want to track inventory, etc.

 

[Mr.Peaberry]

the TC4 board I linked to before is the "go between link" between the thermocouples and your computer. Artisan even has the TC4 as a board option so you just plug it in, choose it from the list and away you go. Not sure if typical supports it or not. Both Artisan and Typica are free downloads so I'd say try both and see which you like the most.

I've been checking that out, and I'm pretty sure it's a great solution. I've been on homeroasters.org for sometime now in stealth mode checking out the different turbo oven builds and all, and have seen the threads on the development of the TC4 board. I'm really curious about the Typica software and like your suggestion to download them both and see which I like best. If I prefer Typica, then I'll just have to work with whatever interface in compatible, and if TC4 is an option, that may likely be the way I'll go. Thanks for your replies.