Advise needed: Which commercial espresso machine and where to get it.

[wiferichie]

I know this has been posted several times, so I'm sorry in advance. I've looked at possibly every thread HA.... but I feel it's just making me more confused.
"Which commercial espresso machine is right for me?"
I need one that can handle quite a bit of drinks, but the demographic where I'm at will not need many espressos or americanos. It will mostly be milk-based espresso drinks. So I feel like I don't need one that makes THE BEST espressos, but in most threads, the top machines for straight espressos are talked about. I feel like I'm going around and around :decaf:

**And the followup question..... I've been in contact with quite a few roasters around here, and most do not offer any equipment. Are there any online stores that sell good espresso machines?

 

[PinkRose]

I'm not sure what you're looking for.

The primary focal point of a milk-based espresso drink is a very good shot of espresso. I don't quite understand why it's not important to you to have a machine that makes "the best" espressos. (or at least very good ones). Do you think that because milk foam is added to the drink, people won't notice that the espresso in their drink is less than good?

 

[wiferichie]

Well I'd love to have the very best machine that pulls the very best espressos. But considering my demographic prefers little espresso taste in their drinks, I'd like to avoid spending $20k on the VERY BEST, and instead purchase something a little less $$, pumps the drinks out super quick, yet still makes a good espresso. We are buying a nice grinder - we recently upped our budget on that piece of equipment. But I'm struggling with deciding on an espresso machine.

I'm not sure what you're looking for.

The primary focal point of a milk-based espresso drink is a very good shot of espresso. I don't quite understand why it's not important to you to have a machine that makes "the best" espressos. (or at least very good ones). Do you think that because milk foam is added to the drink, people won't notice that the espresso in their drink is less than good?

 

[wiferichie]

Thank you for answering The first one is pretty cool. I've never seen that anywhere near where I am at haha.

How does the Nuova Simonelli Aurelia II 2 group compare? I see that one mentioned a lot.[FONT=Questrial, sans-serif] [/FONT]

Microcasa Semiautomatica Commercial Espresso Machine : personally, I would love to have one of these. not only it can be used for commercial purpose, but it is something unique that probably can attract more customers.

Nuova Simonelli Aurelia Ii Digital 4 Group Espresso : if money is no object, this is one of the top ones out there. absolutely top commercial grade.​

 

[shadow745]

Not sure about the Aurelia II, but I owned/operated a 2 group Aurelia in a mobile setup. Even though it had the volumetric water dosing and 3rd steam wand that could be programmed to stop at a set temp I never bothered with either of those features. I steamed every pitcher by hand and started/stopped every extraction manually. That machine was flawless in the 2.5 years or so I ran it. Extremely capable of great espresso, never had to wait on it to recover as I could extract from both groups and steam, boiler pressure never dropped as it constantly recovered during heavy use. The extraction temp was always super consistent and it was due to the 14 liter boiler, massive groups and heat exchangers. Steam volume/pressure was insane, on the order of being able to steam 1 oz per second to 150 degrees.

I have no idea how it compares to more 'advanced' models, but I've never been one to care about the latest/greatest/technological wonders, just what works well and does so day in/out. Also keep simplicity in mind down the road when the machine needs maintenance.

 

[Musicphan]

What type of volume do you anticipate? Are you looking at semi automatic machines or fully automatic?

 

[wiferichie]

Thank you for answering!
I see a lot of people mention needing a double boiler for high volume. How many drinks a day can a 14 liter boiler handle?

Not sure about the Aurelia II, but I owned/operated a 2 group Aurelia in a mobile setup. Even though it had the volumetric water dosing and 3rd steam wand that could be programmed to stop at a set temp I never bothered with either of those features. I steamed every pitcher by hand and started/stopped every extraction manually. That machine was flawless in the 2.5 years or so I ran it. Extremely capable of great espresso, never had to wait on it to recover as I could extract from both groups and steam, boiler pressure never dropped as it constantly recovered during heavy use. The extraction temp was always super consistent and it was due to the 14 liter boiler, massive groups and heat exchangers. Steam volume/pressure was insane, on the order of being able to steam 1 oz per second to 150 degrees.

I have no idea how it compares to more 'advanced' models, but I've never been one to care about the latest/greatest/technological wonders, just what works well and does so day in/out. Also keep simplicity in mind down the road when the machine needs maintenance.

 

[wiferichie]

I prefer semi automatic, but not 100% opposed to automatic. Between 100-150 drinks a day.

What type of volume do you anticipate? Are you looking at semi automatic machines or fully automatic?

 

[Musicphan]

With semi automatic machines you will get a better quality product but keep in mind you will need to train your people on proper techniques (check out Scott Roa's books as a primer). Within the semi-automatic crowd of machines you will see them listed as volumetric or non-volumetric... a volumetric machine will dispense X amount of water and stop. Pro's/cons of both... most people will tend to go non-volumetric and stop the shot volume when it reaches the desired amount. If your going to have one person on the espresso bar (in higher volume shops one will be pulling shots / one texturing milk) I would suggest a two group machine... three group if you can afford it for future expansion/higher volume. As far as brands - without going crazy expensive - I would look at a LaMarzocco Linea EE, Nueva Simonelli Aurelia II, Nueva Simonelli Appia or Rancilio Class 7 or Class 9. Somewhat in that order.... they all have slight pro/cons... cup warmers yes/no, paddles or turn knobs for steam, Heat Exchange vs. Double Boiler, Cool Touch Steam Wands. All three brands produce great machines. HOWEVER - one critical thing - can you get it serviced in your area? I highly suggest finding your local espresso tech to see what he works on... you don't want your money maker to go down and find out it takes X days to get parts.

 

[friedcoffee]

I guess, all depends on the volume of coffee you are going to make and what people prefer to have. May be you do need a super automatic espresso machine too as an alternate as there are sometimes the downtime too in your commercial machine or the queue is long. I've seen People using the Nuova Simmonelli a lot as a commercial espresso machine by many professional baristas and their are positive reviews about that too.

 

[wiferichie]

Which ones have double boiler? just the lamarzocca? Is a double boiler necessary for 100-150 drinks a day?

With semi automatic machines you will get a better quality product but keep in mind you will need to train your people on proper techniques (check out Scott Roa's books as a primer). Within the semi-automatic crowd of machines you will see them listed as volumetric or non-volumetric... a volumetric machine will dispense X amount of water and stop. Pro's/cons of both... most people will tend to go non-volumetric and stop the shot volume when it reaches the desired amount. If your going to have one person on the espresso bar (in higher volume shops one will be pulling shots / one texturing milk) I would suggest a two group machine... three group if you can afford it for future expansion/higher volume. As far as brands - without going crazy expensive - I would look at a LaMarzocco Linea EE, Nueva Simonelli Aurelia II, Nueva Simonelli Appia or Rancilio Class 7 or Class 9. Somewhat in that order.... they all have slight pro/cons... cup warmers yes/no, paddles or turn knobs for steam, Heat Exchange vs. Double Boiler, Cool Touch Steam Wands. All three brands produce great machines. HOWEVER - one critical thing - can you get it serviced in your area? I highly suggest finding your local espresso tech to see what he works on... you don't want your money maker to go down and find out it takes X days to get parts.

 

[wiferichie]

Will the Nuova Simmonelli hold up to 100-150 drinks a day?

I guess, all depends on the volume of coffee you are going to make and what people prefer to have. May be you do need a super automatic espresso machine too as an alternate as there are sometimes the downtime too in your commercial machine or the queue is long. I've seen People using the Nuova Simmonelli a lot as a commercial espresso machine by many professional baristas and their are positive reviews about that too.

 

[Musicphan]

All of the machine I suggested will handle your # of drink requirements... The Appia is probably designed for the lower side of your number (along with a Rancilio Class 5). Yes - the Linea is the only double boiler - one for steam / one for espresso. HX machines combine the two boilers. At the level of machines I have suggested they should handle your demands. I can't stress enough - talk to your local espresso tech.

 

[Musicphan]

Will the Nuova Simmonelli hold up to 100-150 drinks a day?

Not the one suggested in his link by friedcoffee (Sorry)... the Oscar is a home machine. You will need at a minimum a 2 group Appia

 

[wiferichie]

Thank you for the info!

All of the machine I suggested will handle your # of drink requirements... The Appia is probably designed for the lower side of your number (along with a Rancilio Class 5). Yes - the Linea is the only double boiler - one for steam / one for espresso. HX machines combine the two boilers. At the level of machines I have suggested they should handle your demands. I can't stress enough - talk to your local espresso tech.